Pinot Grigio Is Boring. Alsace Pinot Gris Is Its Richer, Weirder French Cousin!

Show Notes

Episode #222: Pinot Grigio Is Boring. Alsace Pinot Gris Is Its Richer, Weirder French Cousin!  00:00

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KEY QUESTIONS

• What is Alsace Pinot Gris?
• What does Alsace Pinot Gris taste like?
• What is the difference between Pinot Grigio and Pinot Gris?
• Is Pinot Gris dry or sweet?
• What food pairs with Alsace Pinot Gris?
• Is Alsace Pinot Gris worth buying?
• What other wines are similar to Alsace Pinot Gris?

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Episode Overview and First Thoughts on Wine Alsace Pinot Gris 00:33
Hello fellow Bottleneckers! And welcome to The Wine Pair Podcast. I’m Joe, your sommelier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime, Carmela. And we are The Wine Pair! 

If you're new to our podcast, here's what we do: Every week we buy wines under $25 with our own money, taste them, and give you our brutally honest opinion on whether they're worth buying. Nobody pays us to review specific wines, we don't accept free bottles from wineries, and we're not afraid to call out a bad wine when we taste one. Decanter Magazine calls us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining - so if that sounds like your vibe, welcome to our tribe of wine lovers.

Thanks again to listener Timmy who gave us the tribe name today and keeps sending us tribe names. We love it! And again, if you have ideas for a tribe name and you want to be on the podcast, just send us a note and we’ll make it happen

This week, Carmela, we are covering a wine that is polarizing to some, and is known by two different names, and those names are Pinot Gris and/or Pinot Grigio. Pinot Gris and Pinot Grigio are the same grape, in fact they are  genetically identical, and the names mean the same thing in the different languages they are from, namely French and Italian. Both mean Gris and Grigio mean gray, and the name comes from the grape itself which has a pinkish-gray hue. The grape is also a color mutation of Pinot Noir, and in fact is they are also genetic twins of each other, believe it or not, so that is something to put into your brainbox and impress your wine nerd friends with.

But, that is not why the wine is controversial. It may be why it’s interesting, but the reason why it is controversial is multi-faceted. There are actually several controversies related to Pinot Gris and Pinot Grigio that are kind of fun, and we are going to spend a little bit of time on them before we head into the section of the pod where we focus on Alsace Pinot Gris specifically. 

The first controversy is called the Tokay Controversy. 
For centuries, the wine in Alsace was called Tokay d’Alsace. That may not sound like a big deal to you, but it was to the Hungarians, and it led to a long legal dispute with Hungary. In Hungary, they have a historic sweet dessert wine called Tokaj (spelled differently), and they did not like the fact that people could get confused by the names, and so they wanted to protect their wine. Starting in 1994, using the name Tokay d’Alsace was forbidden and they had to start using the name Tokay Pinot Gris. Then, in 2007, the European Union banned the use of "Tokay" on Alsatian wine labels altogether, mandating that only the name Pinot Gris. 

The second controversy, which many people may adhere to even to this day, is what I will call the Boring Controversy.

• It starts with the fact that while Pinot Gris and Pinot Grigio are the same grape, there are significant stylistic differences in how the wine is made, and many people view the wine as boring at worst, and at best, neutral. 
• The boring label comes from the Italian style of Pinot Grigio. Italian Pinot Grigio is often harvested early to maintain high acidity, which also means they miss out on some of the things that happen in grapes that can make them more interesting to some, like increasing sugar content which impacts body, aromas, alcohol, etc. That means that these wines are typically light-bodied, crisp, and neutral in flavor and aroma with citrus and green apple notes. In wine, when we are talking about neutral flavors from the grapes themselves, that means they don't have highly distinct aromas or flavors. Sometimes they are even called blank. And that is not a complement. Kind of like the Gen Z stare. 
• Additionally, Italian Pinot Grigio is frequently mass-produced, sometimes blended with another neutral or blank grape called Trebbiano, and is usually a very inexpensive bulk wine, which critics argue has diluted its reputation.Sommeliers often try to avoid it, and a lot of people just consider it to be a safe, but boring or uninteresting wine. And I can relate. I was the safe choice, right, Carmela. 
• However, and we will talk about this more later, the French style of Pinot Gris, as opposed to the Italian style, particularly in Alsace, is generally rich, full-bodied, and complex. It often has higher alcohol levels, and, unlike Italian Pinot Grigio, it can have some body, and even sometimes what is described as an "oily" or unctuous texture. And while Italian Pinot Grigio is almost always a light, dry, and crisp white wine, in Alsace, the wines can range from bone-dry to lusciously sweet.

So, basically Pinot Gris or Grigio can have a not so great reputation, and the fact that there are very different styles doesn’t show up for most wine drinkers because, overwhelmingly, the wine they are going to find most often is Pinot Grigio which many people just sort of shrug off. Now, some people, us included, enjoy Pinot Grigio, but I will admit we often reach for it when we want something safe, reliable, and not tough to pair with food. But it can be bland, and so the criticisms of it are fair.

However, we are setting out in this episode to see if Alsace Pinot Gris really is a different animal from the Italian Pinot Grigio, and we have two Alsace Pinot Gris wines to taste and review to see if either or both are worth your hard earned money . . .

But first . . . we have to do our shameless plug.

Thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and know that we buy all of the wine we taste and review every week so that we can give you real and honest reviews. If you like what you’re hearing, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a five star rating and review so we can grow listeners.

We also love to hear from you and we always respond so you can follow us on Instagram and Bluesky at thewinepairpodcast. You can contact us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com, and you can sign up for our email newsletter there and you can also send us a note at joe@thewinepairpodcast.com and let us know about wines your want us to review or just shoot the breeze, we love chatting it up.

And, as we do every week, we’ll tell you someone we think you should recommend The Wine Pair Podcast to - because the best way for us to grow listeners is when you tell your family and friends about us - and this week, we want you to recommend us to anyone who thinks that Pinot Gris or Pinot Grigio is a boring wine because they may find out something really surprising and interesting in this episode!


Topic: WTF is Alsace Pinot Gris? 10:30

Carmela, let’s find out just what the eff Pinot Gris from Alsace is all about, shall we?

Let’s start with Alsace itself, because I am not sure a lot of Americans or people who don’t travel much know about Alsace. Alsace is in the very far eastern area of France, and borders on Germany and the Rhine River to the east, Switzerland to the south, and the Vosges mountains to the west. Alsace is a place famous for agriculture, which includes wine making, and that winemaking takes place mostly in the foothills of the Vosges mountains. The biggest city in Alsace is Strasbourg, which also happens to be the official seat of the European Parliament, which just means that it is where the Parliament is legally required to hold votes for major legislation. That is definitely information for your brain box that you can use to impress your nerdy friends.

For a bit more brain box fodder, Alsace is a region that has had a pretty tumultuous history, and has changed hands between the German and the French for many, many years. Alsace is considered culturally distinct, and has its own Germanic dialect. In the 17th century it was annexed by France from the Holy Roman Empire, was taken over by Germany following France’s defeat in the Franco-Prussian War in 1871, was returned to France in 1919 after the Treaty of Versailles which ended WWI, and was annexed again by Nazi Germany in WWII, but was liberated back to France after the war. Wow. Like a tennis match. Today, Alsace is considered firmly French, but there are definite German influences including many German last names, food, architecture, and cultural elements.

But back to Alsace winemaking and Pinot Gris. Alsace is a region known for making white wines, and for their famous, slender wine bottle, also known as Flûte d’Alsace, It has a very distinctive look - it is tall, thin, with sloping shoulders no punt or indentation on the bottom, and light green or amber brown glass. German wines use a similar style quite often. 

90% of the wine made in Alsace is white, and they focus heavily on four main grapes: Riesling, Gewürztraminer, Pinot Gris, and Muscat. Remember that. Alsace is also considered a leader in environmentally conscious viticulture. More than 36% of its vineyards are certified organic, and more than 8% are biodynamically farmed. Biodynamic farming is considered controversial by some because of its adherence to things like astronomical calendars, but the core belief is that the farm is a living eco-system, and so they focus on things like crop rotation, using animals to eat weeds and give natural fertilize, and avoiding herbicides and pesticides. But they also talk about stuff like planting with the moon phases and burying horns in the dirt, so some people are like, woah.

As we mentioned earlier, Alsace Pinot Gris is a different animal altogether from Italian Pinot Grigio, Alsace Pinot Gris is known for being rich and full-bodied, something you would never hear about an Italian Pinot Grigio, and has a noble classification and a unique terroir (which again is the fancy name for place where its from) that allows for a huge range of styles.

Let’s start with the noble classification, because that is something you hear about in places like Bordeaux. In Alsace, Pinot Gris is officially recognized as one of the Four Noble Grapes (alongside Riesling, Gewurztraminer, and Muscat - remember those guys?!?). This status grants it exclusive rights to the following: 

• It can be labeled by variety. Unlike most French regions, Alsace features the grape name on the label. The fact that most French wines do not do that is what can make them so tricky. 
• It is one of the few varieties permitted in the region's 51 Grand Cru terroirs which are meant to represent the highest quality and potential for aging. 
• Only noble grapes can carry the prestigious title Vendanges Tardives or late harvest, and Sélection de Grains Nobles which is a fancy way of saying noble rot, which are sweet wines where a fungus shrivels the grapes making them high in sugar

This may be surprising to many people, but Pinot Gris is often described as the "biggest" of all of the Alsace wines, because it is known for its thick texture and high alcohol levels. It is also considered spicy, which sets it apart from the lighter, more neutral versions found elsewhere. Typical aromas include stone fruits (peach, apricot), exotic fruits (mango, melon), honey, smoke, and mushrooms and dirt. It often has a darker look than Pinot Grigio, leaning more towards dark yellow or copper. And it is not considered terribly acidic.

Because of the geography of the area where it grows, in which the mountains create a rain shadow, it actually has one of the driest and sunniest climates in France. This allows the grapes to stay on the vine until late October or November, which is why it is very aromatic and high in sugar without losing a lot of acidity. There are also said to be 13 different soil types in the area which, if you believe in that kind of stuff, can create different flavors and textures in the wine. 

It is also said to sit somewhere between a red wine and a white wine given its structure and tannins and flavor, I mean, it is basically just a light colored Pinot Noir, and so it is said to be extremely versatile with food. It has historically been paired with hearty meats like venison, and is still recommended for duck, roasted pork, or creamy veal dishes. It is considered one of the best pairings for spicy Thai or Indian curries, and late-harvest versions are a traditional match for foie gras.

Alsace Pinot Gris is often considered an alternative to full-bodied Chardonnay, and, as mentioned above is considered to be structurally similar to Pinot Noir, and is the white wine winemakers consider closest to red wine. 

If you enjoy the characteristics of this type of Pinot Gris, many of the sources on the interwebs I reviewed suggest that you may compare it favorably to wines like

• Albariño
• Chenin Blanc
• Pinot Blanc (often used for its similar texture)
• Sylvaner (particularly for its refreshing acidity and versatility)
• Chardonnay
• Grenache Blanc
• Muscadet

But that’s enough information. I think it’s time to learn a little more about the specific wines we are drinking today and then drink this shit. Whaddya say?


Alsace Pinot Gris Wines We Chose for This Episode 18:51

As usual, the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $25, and they should be relatively easy to find because I bought them both at a local wine shop here in Seattle that I like to go to when I can called Esquin. It is not huge, but it has an amazing selection of quality wines from all over the world. Alsace Pinot Gris is not going to be hard to find as long as you look for a good wine shop, a store with a good wine selection, particularly French wines, and, as always, go to your local mom and pop wine shop and talk to the people who work there and they will be more than happy to help you find some. 

The first wine we are going to drink is the 2020 Pierre Sparr Grande Reserve Pinot Gris, and this wine got an 89 from Wine Enthusiast. The winery says that they dry farm and grow their grapes sustainably, and this wine is also Vegan if you are interested in that. Again, Vegan really means that when they do their fining and filtering, if they do it at all, they don’t use any animal products in that process - usually the animal product would be egg. 

They say they cold ferment the wine in stainless steel, and we have mentioned this before, but cold fermentation is said to help keep the aromatics of the wine intact as much as possible. They ferment for a month, which feels like a long time, and then they keep them in vats until bottling, so no oak on this wine. They use whole cluster pressing, so they keep all the stuff together like stems and seeds, but they do not have skin contact, and they don’t use malolactic fermentation, which is often used by winemakers to tamp down on acidity. So, this should be a brighter wine. One thing, it is not completely dry - they rank it on a scale of 2 out of 5, so it won’t be quite sweet, but it is not going to be super crisp.

For a little more on the winery, they were established by the Sparr family in 1680 and are located in the Haut Rhin. They own 37 acres of vineyards, and also source grapes from other vineyards that they work with. 

Let’s move on to our next wine which is the 2020 Frey-Sohler Vieilles Vignes Pinot Gris. For this wine I could not find any professional ratings, but Vivino had it at a 3.9. I also had a heck of a time finding out much information about this wine at all, so I will tell you what I think I know. 

It is 100% Pinot Gris. It is either 12.5% or 13% alcohol vs. 14% for our first wine. The winery is in an area of Alsace called Rittersberg, with soils that are gravel. I believe the grapes are HVE certified, meaning High Environmental Value. HVE if you want to know is a rigorous official agricultural certification created by the French Ministry of Agriculture that recognizes farms and vineyards for their commitment to sustainable and environmentally friendly practices - things like water management, reduced use of artificial fertilizers and insecticides, stuff like that. Looks like they are fermented with natural yeasts under controlled temperatures. 

But, honestly, that is about it, and even that stuff I am not totally 100% certain of, so I think we need to just get to drinking. If you have one of these wines or an Alsace Pinot Gris, or any Pinot Grigio or Pinot Gris, drink along with us!


LINKS TO SOURCES FOR THESE SPECIFIC WINES

• https://images.salsify.com/images/h14hgzqqwb3xdzxthovx/Pierre-Sparr-Pinot-Gris-2020.pdf
• Frey-Sohler | Vins d'Alsace à Scherwiller - La Famille Frey-Sohler c'est l'histoire de plusieurs générations de Vignerons liées à Scherwiller et passionnées par le Vin d'Alsace ! 

2020 Pierre Sparr Grande Reserve Pinot Gris, 2020 Frey-Sohler Vieilles Vignes Pinot Gris Wine Tasting, Pairing, and Review 22:54

Wine: Pierre Sparr Grande Reserve Pinot Gris (Click here to find this wine on wine.com. We may be compensated if you purchase)
Region: France, Alsace
Year: 2020
Price: $22.99
Retailer: Esquin
Alcohol: 14%
Grapes: Pinot Gris
Professional Rating: WE 89 Vivino

What we tasted and smelled in this Pierre Sparr Grande Reserve Pinot Gris: 

• Color: Dark yellow, butter yellow, buttercup
• On the nose: Apricot, lifted, honey, peach, glue, cantaloupe, orange blossom, viscous
• In the mouth: Big in the mouth, flavorful, not much acidity, honey, spicy, raisin-pie filling, wax sugar sticks, beeswax, like buttery Chardonnay, alcohol on the back end, a bit of church wine, stewed apple, cinnamon, allspice, nutmeg, oily or waxy, blood orange peel, great wine for those in a Chardonnay rut

Food to pair with this Pierre Sparr Grande Reserve Pinot Gris: Chicken, duck, pulled pork, brisket, barbecue foods, spicy foods, Thai food, spicy asian food, spicy sausages, spicy tuna poke bowl
 
As a reminder on our rating scale, we rate on a scale of 1-10, with no half points, where 7 and above means that we would buy it, and 4 and below means that we are likely to pour it down the sink, and a 5 or 6 means we are likely to drink it and finish it, but we are probably not going to buy it. 

Pierre Sparr Grande Reserve Pinot Gris Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 6/10
• Carmela: 5/10

Wine: Frey-Sohler Vieilles Vignes Pinot Gris
Region: France, Alsace
Year: 2020
Price: $21.99
Retailer: Esquin
Alcohol: 13%
Grapes: Pinot Gris
Professional Rating: Vivino 3.9

What we tasted and smelled in this Frey-Sohler Vieilles Vignes Pinot Gris: 

• Color: Almost orange or amber in hue, some pink in it
• On the nose: Apple, sherbet, creamy vanilla, herbs, seawater, cantaloupe
• In the mouth: Cinnamon, apple, round, almost a little numbing on the tongue, alcohol church wine on the end, boring, creamsicle

Food to pair with this Frey-Sohler Vieilles Vignes Pinot Gris: Spicy foods, meaty spicy pizza, fried fish, fried calamari, poke bowl, sushi, good food wine
 

Frey-Sohler Vieilles Vignes Pinot Gris Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 6/10
• Carmela: 5/10

Which one of these are you finishing tonight?

• Carmela: Frey-Sohler Vieilles Vignes Pinot Gris
• Joe: Frey-Sohler Vieilles Vignes Pinot Gris

The Test: Did we nail the taste profiles expected from Alsace Pinot Gris?  38:10

• General 
  • Aromas: ripe stone fruits like peach and apricot, alongside tropical notes of mango, melon, and pineapple. Can also include honeysuckle, dandelion, and oolong tea. Sometimes “autumnal” smells of smoke, mushrooms, wet wool, and wilting leaves.
  • On the palate: full-bodied, "oily" or unctuous texture and a creamy, buttery mouthfeel, "like licking wax paper" Typical flavors include nectarine, tangerine, and kumquat, complemented by a signature spiciness of ginger, cinnamon, and clove. Almost tannic on the finish
• Pierre Sparr Grande Reserve Pinot Gris
  • Winery: This Pinot Gris is yellow-gold with expressive and complex aromas of white blossoms and grilled bread. On the palate, it is well-structured, generous and elegant with a touch of spice.
  • WE: Honeysuckle and pear on the nose lead into a wine with similarly soft and slightly sweet notes and texture. This wine has a light and silky mouthfeel. Everything about it is pretty and feathery, like a tutu dancing across the palate. This is fun and easy to drink, ending on a juicy Bosc pear note.
• Frey-Sohler Vieilles Vignes Pinot Gris
  • Winery: NA
  • Vins FR: Very full-bodied wine with great finesse. It stands out for its very fine balance, a wine for aging 

What is the verdict on Alsace Pinot Gris? 40:07
Not a go-to wine for us. However, we know our taste is not your taste. Could be a wine that is very popular with Chardonnay lovers. It is a wine you need to taste.


And now it is time to head over to our news desk so that we can cover our wine in the news this week segment.

Wine in the news this week: Flight Attendant Served Fake Sparkling Wine In First Class — And Claimed It Was American Airlines Policy 41:02

• https://viewfromthewing.com/flight-attendant-served-fake-sparkling-wine-in-first-class-and-claimed-it-was-american-airlines-policy/ 

Our wine in the news this week comes from an aviation blog called View from the Wing, written by Gary Leff. Links are in the show notes as always, and his article is entitled “
Flight Attendant Served Fake Sparkling Wine In First Class — And Claimed It Was American Airlines Policy” And not only is this a crazy story, it is quite timely as Carmela and I were upgraded to first class on our last flight, although it almost didn’t happen

So on March 28th, a woman boarded American Airlines flight 3394, which ran from Miami to Greenville-Spartanburg in South Carolina. She was in first class. She ordered a glass of sparkling wine. She had two glasses, apparently enjoyed them, and then asked for a third. And this is where things went sideways.

The flight attendant came back with something that, in the passenger's own words, tasted terrible. And then, instead of just apologizing and saying they were out, the flight attendant leaned over and explained that when the airline runs out of sparkling wine, she had been told to mix still Chardonnay with carbonated water. And that this was company policy.

The passenger, to her credit, was outraged, and is reported to have said that this was "the worst possible thing you could do to your customers."

Now, Gary Leff, who has been covering the airline industry since 2002, is very clear that this is almost certainly not actual American Airlines policy. His argument is pretty simple: if there were a company memo telling flight attendants to mix Chardonnay and sparkling water whenever they ran out of sparkling wine, someone would have leaked it to him a long time ago. What he thinks happened instead is what he calls galley gossip, the idea that flight attendants sometimes learn their procedures from each other rather than from any official training, and that over time, someone's improvised workaround becomes someone else's understanding of the rules.

There is also a little history here worth knowing. In 2024, American Airlines quietly dropped printed wine lists from first and business class, inviting passengers instead to just ask the flight attendants about what was available. At the time, Leff noted that the flight attendants had been given no extra training on the wines being offered. So the airline took away the list, did not train the staff, and apparently did not make sure the planes were adequately stocked either. This is the result.

So, Carmela, you are in first class, you have had two glasses of sparkling wine, you ask for a third, and a flight attendant hands you a glass of Chardonnay mixed with sparkling water and tells you it is company policy. What do you do?


Listener Shoutouts 46:46
We have some fun listener shoutouts for this week, and we so appreciate when you reach out to use and tell us what you think, or what you are drinking, and so here are some shoutouts:

• Timmy - appreciated we covered his big baller wine in our newsletter and like the sake interview with Kono-san from Sohomare and he sent us more names for the tribe, and he loves Musar and has met one of the Musar family!
• Janyne who said she has liked the Costco Kirkland Bordeaux Blanc
• Ryan who was just checking in AND shared a rose from Puglia he was drinking. Love it!
• Adrienne who shared a wine in the news this week worthy story about a bourbon robbery in Philadelphia. 11k bottles stolen?!?

Wines coming up in future episodes in case you want to drink along with us 47:42

• Italian Sangiovese, but not Chianti: 2022 Cantina Roccafiore Melograno, ​2021 Di Majo Norante Sangiovese​
• Moscato: 2025 Costco Kirkland Signature Moscato d'Asti, ​2024 Saracco Moscato d'Asti​
• Kirkland Bordeaux: 2023 Saint-Julien, 2023 Paulliac
• Verdejo: ​2024 Marques de Riscal Rueda Verdejo​, ​2024 Bodegas Vatan Nisia Old Vines Verdejo​
• Gigondas: ​2023 Crous St Martin Gigondas Les Espaliers​, ​2023 Notre Dame des Pallieres Gigondas Les Mourres​
• Vermentino: ​2022 Tommasi Poggio al Tufo Vermentino,​ ​2024 ColleMassari Melacce Vermentino​
• Chateauneuf-du-Pape: 2024 Costco Kirkland Chateauneuf-du-Pape, ​2023 Domaine du Vieux Lazaret Chateauneuf-du-Pape

Outro and how to find The Wine Pair Podcast 48:18

Thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and remember, we buy all of our own wine and we do all of the writing and recording and editing to bring you a show every week because we absolutely love doing it, and our small little ask for you is that you please follow or subscribe to our podcast and also please leave us a nice rating and review  to help us grow our listeners - and a huge thank you to all of you who have done so already! 

You can also follow us on Instagram and Bluesky at thewinepairpodcast. You can contact us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com, and you can sign up for our email newsletter there and you can also visit our “Shop Wine” section where you can find links to buy the wines that we rate as buys in each episode.  I will also note that on our website, if you are curious about a wine we have covered in the past, we do have a pretty good search functionality, so you can use that find wines you want to know more about. 

And we want to make content you care about and you like, so send us a note or DM us and give us some feedback or let us know if there are wines you want us to try or wine making areas of the world you are curious about - and we’ll take care of it! joe@thewinepairpodcast.com 

Alright, with that, we are going to sign off, so thanks again, and we will see you next time. And, as we say, life is short, so stop drinking shitty wine.

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FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Q. What is Alsace Pinot Gris?
A. Alsace Pinot Gris is a full-bodied white wine made in the Alsace region of northeastern France from the same grape as Pinot Grigio. It is richer, spicier, and more textured than its Italian cousin, with flavors that run toward honey, apricot, spice, and beeswax.

Q. What does Alsace Pinot Gris taste like?
A. It's big in the mouth with low acidity and an oily, waxy texture. Expect honey, apricot, cantaloupe, and peach on the nose, with cinnamon, allspice, stewed apple, and beeswax on the palate. It is often described as the white wine most structurally similar to red wine.

Q. What is the difference between Pinot Grigio and Pinot Gris?
A. Same grape, completely different wine. Pinot Grigio is the Italian style: light, crisp, and fairly neutral. Alsace Pinot Gris is the French version: richer, fuller-bodied, spicier, and much more complex. We tasted both styles and the difference was unmistakable. They share a name and a grape and almost nothing else.

Q. Is Pinot Gris dry or sweet?
A. Alsace Pinot Gris can range from dry to quite sweet, and the label will not always tell you which. The region produces dry table wines alongside late-harvest styles called Vendange Tardive. The wines we tasted leaned toward a richer, almost off-dry profile with honey and fruit sweetness throughout.

Q. What food pairs with Alsace Pinot Gris?
A. It pairs well with bold, spicy, and rich foods. Think spicy Asian food, Thai food, pulled pork, duck, barbecue, and spicy sausages. We also found it worked nicely with a spicy tuna poke bowl and meaty spicy pizza. The richness of the wine stands up to big flavors.

Q. Is Alsace Pinot Gris worth buying?
A. If you want more complexity than Pinot Grigio at the same price, yes. Both wines we tasted came in under $23. Joe gave them each a 6/10 and Carmela gave them each a 5/10, and they both chose the Frey-Sohler Vieilles Vignes as their finish wine. The value is real; just know this is a richer, spicier style. Good for people who like rich, buttery Chardonnay

Q. What other wines are similar to Alsace Pinot Gris?
A. Joe lists several in the episode: Albariño, Chenin Blanc, Pinot Blanc, Sylvaner, Chardonnay, Grenache Blanc, and Muscadet. The common thread is fuller-bodied whites with texture and aromatic lift. If you like the richness of Alsace Pinot Gris, any of these are worth exploring.

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RESEARCH ARTICLES AND LINKS FOR THIS EPISODE

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3DlDtMyRCA
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5KZQF_NIAY
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D75S-RAJwZo
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYquQ-DjP4s
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vU4sb68qdU
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wOVRDIYGuE
• https://grapecollective.com/articles/alsace-where-french-and-german-cultures-converge 
• https://www.mwines.com/the-geology-of-alsace-a-place-of-exceptional-terroirs/ 
• https://www.cellartours.com/blog/france/alsace-wine-classifications 
• https://www.idealwine.info/tokay-or-pinot-gris-whats-the-difference/ 
• https://www.bkwine.com/news/no-more-tokay-d-alsace/ 
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinot_gris 
• https://www.bestheim.com/en/blog/131-pinot-gris-5-things-you-need-to-know 
• https://www.wineenthusiast.com/culture/wine/pinot-gris-alsace-france/ 
• https://shop.sgproof.com/articles/white-wine-articles/explore-the-many-styles-of-pinot-gris-from-alsace-france 
• http://www.alsace-wine.net/d/pinotgris.shtml 
• https://winereviewonline.com/alsatian-pinot-gris-how-sweet-it-is-2/ 
• https://www.thewinesociety.com/discover/explore/regional-guides/alsace-ultimate-guide/ 
• https://lacave-eclairee.fr/en/blogs/info/grands-crus-alsace-discovering-exceptional-terroirs 
• https://www.decanter.com/learn/pinot-grigio-vs-pinot-gris-is-there-a-difference-454763/ 
• https://winefolly.com/deep-dive/whats-the-difference-between-pinot-gris-and-pinot-grigio/ 
• https://armchairsommelier.com/wines/pinot-gris/ 
• https://vinovoss.com/news-and-articles/wine-regions-and-wine-grapes/pinot-gris-50-shades-of-the-gray-pinot/ 
• https://www.masterclass.com/articles/pinot-gris-wine-guide 
• https://timatkin.com/cork-talk/pinot-gris/ 
• https://altoadige.guides.winefolly.com/wines/pinot-grigio/ 
• https://www.winespectator.com/articles/alphabetical-guide-to-pinot-grigio-043021 
• https://www.oregonwine.org/discover/oregon-wine-varieties/ 
• https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/life/food-and-wine/article-whats-wrong-with-pinot-grigio/ 
• https://www.foodie.com/1783181/best-pinot-grigios-white-wine-lovers/ 
• https://www.thinkwinegroup.co.uk/blogs/news/does-pinot-grigio-age-well 
• https://www.alcoholprofessor.com/blog-posts/blog/2015/11/03/wines-worth-the-wait-alsatian-vendange-tardive 
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendange_tardive 
• https://foodwineandflavor.com/Categories/wine/lifestyle/expand-your-palate/selection-de-grains-nobles-alsace-guide/ 
• https://www.ribeauville-riquewihr.com/en/discover/late-harvest-selection-grains-nobles.htm 
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinot_gris 

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FULL TRANSCRIPT

Joe: 00:00
You may think you know Pinot Grigio, but do you know Pinot Gris? It's the same grape. But if you're used to the light, thin Pinot Grigio from Italy, this ain't it, people. We tried two Pinot Gris from All Sauce, and let me tell you, honey, they are different. Aren't they?

Carmela: 00:18
Yeah, I like how you slip that in.

Joe: 00:20
Honey?

Carmela: 00:20
Honey?

Joe: 00:21
That's a little hint, a little preview.

Carmela: 00:24
Right. Spoiler alert.

Joe: 00:33
Hello, fellow bottleneckers, and welcome to the Wine Pair Podcast. I'm Joe, your simolier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime, Carmela.

Carmela: 00:44
Hi there.

Joe: 00:45
And we are the wine pair. Yeah.

Carmela: 00:47
Huh?

Joe: 00:47
Well, we'll get to that in a second. If you're new to the podcast, here's what we do. Every week we buy wines under $25 with our own money. We taste them and give you our brutally honest opinion on whether they're worth buying. Nobody pays us to review specific wines. We don't accept free bottles from wineries, and we're not afraid to call out a bad wine when we taste one. And to catch a magazine calls us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining. So if that sounds like your vibe, welcome to our tribe of wine lovers. That includes Timmy, who gave us, yes, the tribe name today, and he keeps sending us tribe names, which we love.

Carmela: 01:21
Wow. Was that a new one or is that part of the list?

Joe: 01:23
It's part of the old list, but now his wife is sending them to us. It's amazing. We love it.

Carmela: 01:27
They're keeping us in business.

Joe: 01:28
That's right. But if somebody else wants to send us a tribe name, send it to us. We'll ask you if you want to be on the pod.

Carmela: 01:34
I think they're intimidated.

Joe: 01:35
They're intimidated.

Carmela: 01:36
Intimidated. Yes. Exactly. Wow. Did you just come up with that? Or were you going to say that anyway?

Joe: 01:43
No, I'm fast.

Carmela: 01:44
That's really good, honey. Wow.

Joe: 01:46
Okay, this week, Carmelo, we are covering a wine that is polarizing to some and is known by two different names. And those names are Pinot Gris and or Pinot Grigio. Now, Pinot Gris and Pinot Grigio are the same grape. So just in case you're wondering, and in fact, they are genetically identical. Oh. And the names mean the same thing in the different languages there from, namely French and Italian. Both gris and grigio mean gray. And the name comes from the grape itself, which has kind of a pinkish-gray hue. And the grape is also a color mutation of Pinot Noir. And in fact, they are genetic twins. Twinny! Twins. So it's a twin of Pinot Noir. Pinot Gris or Grigio and Pinot Noir, they are genetically twins. I know, believe it or not.

Carmela: 02:35
They're not identical. Those guys are fraternal.

Joe: 02:39
Okay. I'm not sure they're genetically the same. But anyway, put that in your brain box and bring it out when you're at a party to make people think you're really cool or just a wine nerd.

Carmela: 02:50
Intimidate that.

Joe: 02:51
Nice, intimidate them. But that is not why the wine is controversial, Carmela. Okay. It may be why it's interesting, but it's not why it's controversial. And the reason it's controversial is multifaceted. That's right. I came up with that word on my own. Oh goodness. Yes. There are actually several controversies, maybe a couple controversies related to Pinot Gris and or Pinot Grigio that are that are kind of fun. So we're going to spend a little bit of time on them before we head into the section of the podcast where we actually will focus on all sauce, Pinot Gris, because that's really what we're talking today. Specifically, Pinot Gris from Alsace France. Wow.

Speaker 4: 03:25
Okay.

Joe: 03:25
Now the first controversy is called the Toky controversy. So for centuries, the wine and all sauce was called Toky de Alsace. Now that may not sound like a big deal to you, but it was a big deal to the Hungarians.

Carmela: 03:40
And it led to a long anything that's a big deal to Hungarians is a big deal to us.

Joe: 03:45
Yeah, like we don't want the Hungarians mad at us. Anyway, that's we like a big deal. We do. It led to a long legal dispute with Hungary. And in Hungary, they have a historic sweet dessert and wine called Tokyo, but it's spelled slightly differently.

Carmela: 03:59
Okay, Toky.

Joe: 04:01
The one in France is T-O-K-A-Y, and in Hungary it's T-O-K-A-J. But they didn't like the fact that people could get confused by the names, and so they wanted to protect their wine. So starting in 1994, using the name Toky de Alsace was forbidden. And then they started using the name Tokai Pinot Gris. But then in 2007, the European Union said, no way, Toky, and it banned the use of Tokyo. Was that in the script? No, I actually just made this up on the fly. I mean, I feel really hot and on it today. Anyway, the European Union banned the use of Tokyo on Alsatian wines, Alsatian wines, altogether, and they can only say Pinot Gris now. That's it. Oh, wow. Now the second controversy, which many people adhere to even to this day, is what I call the boring controversy. It starts with the fact that while Pinot Gris and Pinot Grigio are the same grape, there are significant differences in style and how the wine is made and how the wine is experienced. And many people view the wine, Pinot Grigio mostly, as boring.

Carmela: 05:02
Boring.

Joe: 05:03
Boring at best. Or maybe maybe boring neutral at best and boring at worst.

Carmela: 05:09
Who I I mean I really like a Pinot Grigio.

Joe: 05:12
Zero comment. Like that is you can't answer. You're not boring, Carmela. How about that? Boring. Okay. The boring label comes from the Italian style of Pinot Grigio. Italian Pinot Grigio is often harvested early to maintain high acidity, which also means that they miss out on some of the things that happen in grapes that can make them more interesting when they're on the vine longer, like increasing the sugar content, which increases alcohol eventually, the aromas, uh, the body, etc. So that means that these wines, the Pinot Grigio's from Italy, are typically light-bodied and crisp and neutral in flavor and aroma.

Carmela: 05:50
I mean, I kind of feel like they're kind of an old reliable.

Joe: 05:53
That's kind of why people, that's why it's a little bit controversial. So it's not super distinct. Sometimes they're even called neutral or blank. Kind of like, you know, the Gen Z, Gen Z stare. You know the Gen Z stare?

Carmela: 06:05
I've never heard of that. You've never heard of the Gen Z stare? No, no. Blank.

Joe: 06:09
Yeah, they're just like blank face. They just look at you with no expression.

Carmela: 06:12
Oh, that's not good. Yeah. That's what a Pinot Grigio does to us?

Joe: 06:15
It's kind of blank like that. It's kind of blank like the stare. Now, additionally, Italian Pinot Grigio is frequently mass-produced. It's sometimes blended with another neutral or blank grape called Trebbiano, and is usually a very inexpensive bulk wine, which critics argue has diluted its reputation. So Somoliers often try to avoid it, and a lot of people just consider it, like you said, to be safe but boring or uninteresting. And I can relate to that. Oh, you know, like Pinot Grision? I would no, but I like I was the safe choice, wasn't I, Carmella?

Carmela: 06:47
Oh, I thought you were saying I was the safe choice.

Joe: 06:49
Oh, I was the safe choice. I don't I don't know. But I overmarried. I overmarried. And everybody knows it. Okay, anyway. We'll talk about this more later. The French style of Pinot Gris as opposed to the Italian style.

Carmela: 07:03
Over married, I think that sounds weird. Now I'm thinking it in a different way. I don't think that's what people say. Overmarried.

Joe: 07:09
Okay.

Carmela: 07:10
Because that means like you married too much? Yeah. Like, no, we I married too often? Maybe, but like overmarried, that means like you, yeah, you married too much.

Joe: 07:19
You don't know. Maybe I was married before. You don't know this.

Carmela: 07:23
Joe does call me his first wife.

Joe: 07:25
I am the first wife, so that means I haven't been married again yet.

Carmela: 07:28
Right, right. But anyway, can we get back to Al Sauce Pinot Gris? Yes, that's a topic for another evening.

Joe: 07:33
It is. Now, Pinot Gris in Alsace is generally known as rich, full-bodied, and complex. Now remember, this is the exact same grape as Pinot Grigio. Exactly the same, but totally different descriptors. Some even call it like a little bit oily or uncuous in texture. And it can it can vary from a light wine to like super sweet wines. So it's very different. So basically, Pinot Gris or Pinot Grigio can have a not so great reputation. And the fact that there are very different styles, it just doesn't show up for most wine drinkers. I don't think most wine drinkers would think that. I think that most wine drinkers would go, oh, Pinot Grigio, like you said, it's kind of old standby.

Carmela: 08:10
Right. Right. Right. I mean, if it's like when in doubt, have a Pinot Grigio. Have a glass of Pinot Grigio.

Joe: 08:16
Yeah, and people may shrug it off. Oh, Pinot Gris, isn't that just Pinot Grigio?

Carmela: 08:20
Whatever.

Joe: 08:21
But you know what? We enjoy a Pinot Grigio.

Carmela: 08:23
Yeah.

Joe: 08:24
We're kind of boring, but that's okay.

Carmela: 08:26
No, we're not. We're not boring. We're just overmarried, apparently.

Joe: 08:29
That's right.

Carmela: 08:30
That's not boring at all.

Joe: 08:31
No. We're today. We're setting out in this episode to see if all sauce Pinot Gris is as exciting as we are. Woo! If it's not boring like us. And it's and if it really is a different. No, I said we're not boring like us. Well, you said like us. Not boring. Okay. It's confusing. Right. I know. Just wait. We're just getting started to confuse people. But we're going to see if this all sauce Pinot Gris is really a different animal than the Italian Pinot Grigio. And we have two all sauce Pinot Gris wines to taste and review to see if either or both are worth your hard-earned money. But first, you got to do our shameless plug. That's right. So thank you for listening to us and supporting our show. And we buy all the wine that we taste and review every week. We tell you this all the time so that we can give you real and honest reviews. And if you like what you're hearing, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a five-star rating and review so we can grow listeners. We also love to hear from you and we always respond. So you can follow us on Instagram and Blue Sky and TikTok at the WinePair Podcast. You can contact us on our website, thewinepairpodcast.com, and you can sign up for our email and newsletter there. And you can also send us a note at Joe at the Winepair Podcast.com and let us know wines you want us to review or just shoot the breeze. We just we like to talk. We like to talk. We're boring, but we like to talk. Oh my gosh. And as we do every week, we'll tell you someone we think is overmarried. No, someone we think you should recommend the winepair podcast to.

Carmela: 09:51
Somebody who's overmarried. That's right.

Joe: 09:53
Because the best way, oh, that's a good one. Because the best way for us to grow listeners that got to follow the script is when you tell your family and friends about us. And this week we want you to recommend us to anyone you think is overmarried.

Carmela: 10:03
I agree. Yeah. I want to know who these people are.

Joe: 10:05
Yeah, just go up and you just say, hey, I got this podcast. You don't have to tell them. You don't have to tell them why you're telling me. But if you just think they're overmarried, like that's your call. In fact, don't tell them. Just tell them about the podcast and make them listen to this episode and they'll figure out why.

Carmela: 10:20
Then they won't hear anything about the wine. They'll just keep hearing over married. That's right. They're gonna be like, wait, is that me? Did you mean that somebody like subtly saying I'm overmarried?

Joe: 10:29
Exactly. Okay. Carmella, let's find out just what the f Pinot Gris from Alsace is all about, shall we? Let's do it. Okay, let's start with Alsace itself because I'm not sure a lot of Americanes or people who travel who don't travel much know about Alsace. Alsace is the very far east area of France and it borders on Germany and the Rhine River to the east, Switzerland to the south, and the Voskass Mountains, I hope I'm saying that right, to the west. Alsace is a place famous for agriculture, which includes winemaking, and that winemaking takes place mostly in the foothills of these Voskus Mountains. The biggest city in Alsace is Strasbourg, which sounds very German, and we're gonna talk about that, which also happens to be the official seat of the European Parliament, which just means that's where the European Parliament is legally required to hold votes for major legislation. Another thing to put in your brain box. Not about wine, but just just cuz. Right, just fun facts. Yeah. Now for a bit more brain box fodder, Alsace is a region that has had a pretty tumultuous history and has changed hands between the Germans and the French for many, many years. Alsace is considered culturally distinct and it has its own Germanic dialect, but here, get ready for this. In the 17th century, it was annexed by France from the Holy Roman Empire. It was taken over by Germany following France's defeat in the Franco-Prussian War in 1871. It was returned to France in 1919 after the Treaty of Versailles, which ended World War I. It was annexed again by Nazi Germany in World War II, but was liberated back to France after the war. It's like a tennis match, it's like the French Open, which just happened. Right. Now, Alsace is considered firmly French, but there are definite German influences, including many German last names, food, architecture, and cultural elements. But back to Alsace and Alsace winemaking and Pinot Gris. Alsace is an is a region known for making white wines. And their famous slender wine bottle, also known as so pretty. It's so pretty. It's known as the Flute de Alsace, and it has a very distinctive look. It's tall, it's thin, it has sloping shoulders. It actually doesn't have a punt. So the punt is that indentation at the bottom of wine bottles. They don't put that on their wine bottles. And it's usually light green or amber brown glass. And German wines use a similar style quite often. 90% of the wine made in Alsace is white. They focus heavily on four main grapes: Riesling, Gewürz Demeanor, Pinot Gris, and Mouscat. Remember that. Remember that. Okay, remember those grapes. Alsace is also considered a leader in environmentally conscious viticulture. More than 36% of its vineyards are certified organic, and more than 8% are biodynamically farmed. Now, if you don't know about biodynamics, let's talk about it a little bit because it's controversial too. Oh man. Because it adheres to things like astronomical calendars. But the core belief is that a farm is a living ecosystem. And so they focus on things like crop rotation, using animals to eat weeds and give natural fertilizer. That means poo-poo, avoiding herbicides and pesticides. But they also talk about stuff like planting with moon phases and burying horns in the dirt. So some people are like, whoa. Exactly. Some people are like, whoa. That's exactly what I wrote in the script. It's not a script, it's show notes, and you can get them. Anyway, you just go to this episode. Okay. As we mentioned earlier, Alsace Pinot Gris is a different animal altogether from Italian Pinot Grigio. I don't know. Also Pinot Gris is known for being rich and full-bodied, as, as we mentioned, something you would never hear about an Italian Pinot Grigio and has a noble classification and a unique Tewa, which again, Tewa is just the fancy name for like the place. And it allows for a huge range of styles. So let's start with this whole noble classification thing because that's something you hear about in places like Bordeaux. In Alsace, Pinot Gris is officially recognized as one of the four noble grapes. And again, they're Riesling, Gewertzdemir, Mouscat. Remember those guys? We talked about those guys. There they are again.

Carmela: 14:38
Just heard them. Yep.

Joe: 14:39
Now, this status of being noble allows them exclusive rights to the following. Okay, you ready? Yes. The first is it can be labeled by variety. So unlike most French regions, all sauce features the grape name on the label. Which is nice because a lot of times French wines I find really complicated because they don't put the grape on the label, but they do in all sauce. It's also one of the few varieties permitted in the region's 51 grand cru terrois, which are meant to represent the highest quality and potential for aging. And only noble grapes can carry the prestigious title vendages tardives. I don't know if I'm saying that right. It means late harvest and also selection de grands nobles, which is a fancy way of saying noble rot. Noble rot is where a lot of sweet wines come from, where actually it's a grape that's allowed to kind of rot a little bit on the vine and it gets really, it loses, I know it sounds gross, Carmela made a face, it loses moisture and so it really concentrates the sugars. Now, this may be surprising to a lot of people, but Pinot Gris is often described as the biggest of all the all-sauce wines because it's known for its thick texture and high alcohol levels, kind of like me. It's also considered spicy, kind of like me. Wow. Which sets it apart from the lighter, more neutral versions found elsewhere, like we talked about.

Carmela: 16:02
I'm gonna like this wine.

Joe: 16:03
I think you are. Typical aromas sometimes include stone fruits. By that we mean like peach and apricot, exotic fruits, that's what the interweb said, like mango. So exotic. Honey, smoke, mushrooms, and dirt. Those are things you would often hear in a Pinot Noir.

Speaker 3: 16:19
Right.

Joe: 16:19
It often also has a darker look than Pinot Grigio, and it's not considered terribly acidic. So that may be something that we don't like. Yeah, we don't like as much. Because of the geography of the area where it grows, in which the mountains create a rain shadow, which sometimes we believe it or not get in Seattle too. Like it rains a lot in Seattle, but we have the Olympic mountains that can often shadow the rain. Anyway, Alsace is actually one of the driest and sunniest climates in France. Like you would not expect this because it's north and east. And so this allows the grapes to stay on the vine until late October or November, which is why it's very aromatic and high in sugar without losing a lot of acidity. There are said to be 13 different soil types in the area, which, if you believe that kind of stuff, can create different flavors and textures in the wine. And then it's also said to sit somewhere between a red wine and a white wine, given its structure and tannins and flavors. I mean, you know, it is just basically a lighter colored Pinot Noir. It's genetically similar.

Carmela: 17:18
You're gonna like this wine, right?

Joe: 17:19
I think so. And so it's supposed to be very versatile, versatile with food. It's historically been paired with hearty meats like venison and duck and we eat those all the time.

Carmela: 17:30
Duck.

Joe: 17:31
We're constantly eating duck, yes, roasted pork or creamy veal dishes. Another thing. Wow. Creamy veal. All the time. Yeah. And it's considered one of the best pairings for spicy Thai or Indian curries, which we do love. Yeah. And another thing you love fish tacos. No. Late harvest versions are a traditional match for Fog gua.

Carmela: 17:52
Oh, another thing that's on the menu regularly.

Joe: 17:55
We have Fagwa on the regular. Oh, always. Oh, I don't have you ever had it?

Carmela: 18:01
I think I have. Yes, because we, yeah, I think as I actually when I was quite a bit younger, I don't miss it.

Joe: 18:07
No, I don't, I don't. If you like it, great peace. We're not here to yuck your yum, but I don't think I can do it. Um, all sauce Pinot Gris is often considered an alternative to full-bodied Chardonnay. And as mentioned above, it's considered to be structurally similar to Pinot Noir and is the white wine winemakers consider closest to red wine. Oh. So another thing to put in your brain box. So if you enjoy this type of Pinot Gris, sources on the interweb say that you also may enjoy these types of wines like Alberinho, Chenin Blanc, Pinot Blanc, Sylvanor, Unoque Chardonnay, Grenache Blanc, and Mouscadet. Nice. But that's enough information, Carmilla. I think it's time to learn a little bit more about the specific wines we're going to drink today. What do you say?

Carmela: 18:50
I'm in.

Joe: 18:50
I knew you'd say that. As usual, the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $25 each, and they should be relatively easy to find because I bought them both at a local wine shop here in Seattle that I like to go to when I can, called Esquin. Now, it's not a huge store, but it has an amazing selection of quality wines. And no, we are not getting paid for this. But I just like it. It's a local store with a big selection.

Carmela: 19:11
Give a shout out, I feel like.

Joe: 19:12
All sauce Pinot Gris is not going to be hard to find as long as you look for a good wine shop, a store with a good wine selection, particularly French wines. And it's always go to your local mom and pop wine shop.

Carmela: 19:23
Go to your mom and pop.

Joe: 19:24
Go to your mom and pop and say mama. And then talk to the people who work there, and they'll be more than happy to help you find some all sauce Pinot Gris, I promise. Okay. The first wine we're going to drink is the 2020 Pierre Spar Grande Reserve Pinot Gris. And this one got an 89 from Wine Enthusiast. The winery says they dry farm. So that means they don't use any irrigation. Irrigation. So they don't use any irrigation and they grow their grapes sustainably. And the wine is also vegan. So if you're interested in that kind of thing, this is a that this might be a great wine for you. And again, vegan really means that when they do their fining and filtering, if they fine and filter their wine, they don't use any animal products in the process. And a lot of times the animal product they may use is egg. Anyway, the the they say they cold ferment the wine in stainless steel. And we mentioned this before, but cold fermentation is said to help keep the aromatics in the wine intact as much as possible. They ferment for a month, which seems like a long time. And then they keep them in vats until bottling. So there's no oak on this wine. They use whole cluster pressing. So that means they keep all the stuff together, like stems and seeds, along with the grapes. They do not have skin contact with this wine. So that's interesting. And they don't use malolactic fermentation, which is often used by winemakers to tamp down on acidity. So this should be a brighter wine. So maybe we may really like this wine, but it is also not completely dry. They have a little thing on the label that has like a one to five rating on their sweetness, and this was actually a two.

Carmela: 20:56
Oh, wow.

Joe: 20:57
But it's high alcohol content as well. So I'm very curious to see how it kind of like comes across.

Carmela: 21:03
Right, maybe balance things is out.

Joe: 21:05
I think so. For a little bit more in the winery, they were established by the Spar family in 1680. Wow. And are located in the Hot Rene. I don't know where that is, but I thought I'd mention it. They own 37 acres of vineyards and they also source grapes from other vineyards that they work with. So let's move on to the next wine, which is the 2020 Frey Solar Ville Vignese. Pinot Gris. Ville Vignese is old vines. For this wine, I could not find any professional ratings, but Bovino had it at a 3.9. I also had a really hard time finding out any information about this wine at all. So I'll tell you what I think I know. Okay. I think I know this. It's 100% Pinot Gris. I gotta tell you guys, I've been saying Pinot Not Gris. I don't know why.

Carmela: 21:44
I just I have the He's trying to come up with his own wine, I think, now anyway.

Joe: 21:50
It's either 12.5% or 13% alcohol. The winery is in an area of Alsace called the Rittersburg. The soils are gravel. I believe the grapes are H V E certified. Meaning high environmental value. HVE, if you want to know, is a rigorous official agricultural certification created by the French Ministry of Agriculture that recognizes farms and vineyards for their commitment to sustainable and environmentally friendly practices, things like water management, reduced use of artificial fertilizers and insecticides and stuff like that. So it looks like they are also fermented with natural yeasts under controlled temperatures. But honestly, that's about it. And even that stuff I'm not totally 100% certain of. So I think we're just gonna need to get drinking. So if you have an all sauce Pinot Gris or any Pinot Gris or a Pinot Grigio or a white wine or just any.

Carmela: 22:41
Or if you have Pinot Negris, let us know. Let us know. We are so curious.

Joe: 22:46
I guess I'm really I really like that wine. Anyway and we'll be right back. Okay, we're back and we're ready to try our first wine. And I'll just say it is that pretty tall bottle, thin bottle, and it's a screw cap.

Carmela: 23:02
It sure is.

Joe: 23:03
We love a screw cap. Okay, this is the Pierre Spar Grande Reserve Pinot Gris. It's from Al Sauce France. It's a 2020 vintage, $22.99 at Esquin, 14% alcohol, Carmela. Oh I know. It's 100% Pinot Gris, and Wine Enthusiast gave it an 89. But let's look first at the color. It's dark. It is a little darker than a normal for sure.

Carmela: 23:30
Pinot Gris. It doesn't look like a Pinot Gris at all.

Joe: 23:32
No, it's it's yellow.

Carmela: 23:33
Yep.

Joe: 23:34
Almost looks Chardonnay-ish.

Carmela: 23:35
Mm-hmm. Looks kind of butter. Buttery.

Joe: 23:37
Yeah, buttery. It is kind of buttery, buttery yellow. I think you're right.

Carmela: 23:41
Almost like more like those little flowers you would put underneath your uh when you were a little kid. Those little tiny yellow flowers. So buttercups. Buttercups. And you put them under your chin.

Joe: 23:50
Weren't they really just dandelions?

Carmela: 23:52
Probably. There were weeds, for sure. But but you would test if people liked butter by putting it under their chin.

Joe: 23:57
And that was true.

Carmela: 23:58
Everybody loved butter.

Joe: 23:59
And it was a fact.

Carmela: 24:00
It is.

Joe: 24:00
Okay, what are we smelling?

Carmela: 24:02
I'm getting some of those exotic fruits.

Joe: 24:04
I agree.

Carmela: 24:05
Apricot, for sure.

Joe: 24:07
This is what the wine nerds would call lifted, but that just means it's got smell coming out of the glass.

Carmela: 24:12
Right, right. Honey, I'm getting a little honey.

Joe: 24:14
Honey. I agree, like peach, apricot. I'm almost getting a tiny bit, like if I put my nose right in there, maybe a tiny bit of glue.

Carmela: 24:22
Okay. Funny enough though, I don't feel like for such high alcohol, I'm not finding it hot at all. Like alcohol-y or glue kind of gives that impression.

Joe: 24:31
A little bit. Melon, a little bit of melon, like cantaloupe.

Carmela: 24:35
Mm-hmm. I can get behind the cantaloupe, yeah.

Joe: 24:39
There's something flowery on it, too.

Carmela: 24:41
It's really nice.

Joe: 24:42
Pretty. Yeah. Almost um maybe like an orange blossom. Oh. How about an orange blossom?

Carmela: 24:47
I love that. Whatever that may be. I love it. Yeah. But it is, I am getting a lot, though, of honey on it, too.

Joe: 24:55
I agree. I was thinking natural honey, you know. You're totally right. And it does smell viscous. Doesn't it? It smell almost a little.

Carmela: 25:02
Yeah. Okay. I wonder if it's going to be touch sweet, like you said.

Joe: 25:05
I don't know. We're going to find out, but it's 14% alcohol. So that means sweet and savory. Okay, let's taste it. Whoa. It's kind of big.

Carmela: 25:16
Yeah, it is.

Joe: 25:16
Kind of a big wine.

Carmela: 25:17
Yeah.

Joe: 25:18
That was kind of your sexy voice.

Carmela: 25:20
Sorry.

Joe: 25:21
Yeah, it is.

Carmela: 25:22
I'm gonna say though, out of the gate, I'm missing the acidity on this. It is flavorful.

Joe: 25:29
Super flavorful.

Carmela: 25:30
It is like a cocktail almost.

Joe: 25:31
It is.

Carmela: 25:32
But I don't, I'm not, I am a little bit missing that uh acidity. It's um there's no citrus on it at all. Do you think?

Joe: 25:40
Maybe a little bit, but I am getting like honey, sugar. I am getting it's sweet, spicy. Tastes a little bit like a pie filling, but like a weird, like a raisin pie filling.

Carmela: 25:51
Do you know those like sugar? What are those? They're like sugar sticks, but they're they're they're covering what are they covering? It's not like wax.

Joe: 26:01
It's wax. Yeah.

Carmela: 26:03
That's kind of what it reminds me of.

Joe: 26:04
It is, it is a little waxy, and I'm getting honey. Yes, definitely getting honey for sure.

Carmela: 26:10
Like be beeswax almost. Like a biscuit with honey. True. And butter.

Joe: 26:15
I mean, this is like this is a pretty big wine.

Carmela: 26:18
I know it's kind of Chardonnay-ish.

Joe: 26:20
I was gonna say, I think if you like a Chardonnay, you might dig this wine.

Carmela: 26:23
Yeah, I mean, it's it is a drink like a cocktail type of wine. Like you can just sip on this and not even have food. I mean, that's so much flavor.

Joe: 26:34
I am tasting the alcohol in it too. I feel like on the back end of it, you can get the alcohol. Like it's pretty it I almost got a little bit of church wine vibe on it because it's so alcohol-y.

Carmela: 26:46
But you don't usually have white wine at church, do we?

Joe: 26:48
Sure. Oh, actually, it's mostly what you have is white wine. There's also maybe a little bit of like sweet apple or something on it, maybe like a stewed apple, like apple you're saying, like apple pie filling. Yeah, like there's pie, there's spice on it, like cinnamon.

Carmela: 27:02
Yeah, so there's I would say that. I would say that it's kind of like a pie filling with spices. I mean, allspice, um, cinnamon, like you said. Yeah, nutmeg.

Joe: 27:14
It is thick though, don't you think? Like mouthfeel, it's like kind of thick. It is kind of oily.

Carmela: 27:19
Yeah, it is. Uh yeah, I mean it's waxy almost. It's again, it's there's so much flavor.

Joe: 27:26
So much flavor.

Carmela: 27:27
And I'm not getting it like very much alcohol. I know you're getting it at the back end.

Joe: 27:30
I feel like I'm getting a lot, but I don't know why. Huh. And it is kind of a little bit on the sweet end. Yeah.

Carmela: 27:36
No, the orange, the orange blossom, I don't know what the heck it exactly means, but I'm kind of getting that. Orange. Yeah. A little bit. Orange blossom or orange peel.

Joe: 27:44
You're kind of with me a little bit now.

Carmela: 27:45
I think I am. See? Like a blood-red orange.

Joe: 27:49
Yes. I don't know. I just wanted to. You're so enthusiastic. Oh my god. Anyway, this is a wine for somebody who likes a big white wine. For sure. Or who is overmarried. Okay, let's talk about the food that we would have with this Pierre Spar.

Carmela: 28:05
What do you think?

Joe: 28:06
I think it's a big, I mean, like you could have almost anything with it. I'm thinking meat. I am thinking meat dishes, but like I could do that too. Yeah, like chicken, white meats. I'm thinking more white meat. We don't eat a lot of game. Okay, we don't have a lot of deer.

Carmela: 28:19
Yeah.

Joe: 28:19
That's not, but I could see like duck for sure.

Carmela: 28:22
I mean, I could actually see like a pulled pork.

Joe: 28:26
Yes.

Carmela: 28:26
That would be really good. I think brisket.

Joe: 28:29
I think you're totally right. Like grilled food, barbecued foods. I think it would be killer with spicy foods.

Carmela: 28:34
Yeah, for sure.

Joe: 28:35
I think it'd be really good with Thai or Chinese food, like a general tsou's.

Carmela: 28:40
Yeah.

Joe: 28:40
Spicy sausages.

Carmela: 28:43
Ooh. Yeah, I think so. I think it really could, because it's so big, you almost the fish thing is not doing it for me.

Joe: 28:50
You wouldn't want to like you love the delicate white fish, but you wouldn't do that.

Carmela: 28:54
No, I wouldn't.

Joe: 28:54
You know what I'd be good with? I had a poke bowl last night, a tuna.

Carmela: 28:58
Oh, you think it would be good with a table?

Joe: 28:59
Told me because it was spicy and the fish. It was really good.

Carmela: 29:01
Okay.

Joe: 29:02
Because you know, tuna like that, tuna has flavor. Right. True. Okay, well, let's rate this wine. As a reminder on a rating scale, we rate it on a scale of one to ten with no half points. Seven and above means we'd buy it. Four below means we're going to pour it down the sink. Five or six means we're going to drink it and finish it, but we're not going to buy it. So, what rating are you going to give this wine? I I'm having a hard time.

Carmela: 29:20
I'm I'm not having a hard time where I'm going to say out of the gate, I'm not going to buy this wine.

Joe: 29:25
You're not? Nope.

unknown: 29:26
Okay.

Carmela: 29:26
I'm just not. It's just not my style of white wine. And I like a lot of white wine. Yeah. I like, and I, but I do, but and I have a range, but this is just falling outside of what I would buy. But so I'm kind of like at that five, six.

Joe: 29:40
Which one? Five or six? Six, seven, six, seven, six, six.

Carmela: 29:43
Six, seven, six, seven. I'm going to say you know what that reference is? I do. Okay, thank you. There's no Pope did it. Yeah, there's no reference. I mean, it's just people do it. Yeah. That's my understanding. Is that correct?

Joe: 29:53
It doesn't mean much. If somebody knows, let us know. Yeah.

Carmela: 29:56
Pope. So, right. Hilarious. So I'm going to give it a five.

Joe: 30:03
Okay.

Carmela: 30:04
For now, I'm going to give it a five.

Joe: 30:05
I like it. I like it. I'm going to give it. I'm so like I am on the edge. I think you're right. I think if we were just going out on the town and we were going to have a wine, I don't think you and I would get this. But I will say, like, for certain foods, I think it would be fantastic. And I think if you were going to have somebody over who's like stuck in a Chardonnay rut, then this would be a great wine to like just expand your horizons a little bit.

Carmela: 30:31
Agree. And there's nothing offensive about it. Like it's not a wine that I go, oh, like I just don't know. It's tasty. Yeah. I just don't know if I can finish a glass.

Joe: 30:40
Yeah. No, I'm with you. So I'm going to give it a six. I would love to give it a seven because I really like, I think it'd be great with food, but I agree it's not really our style. Again, this is not your grandma's Italian Pinot Grigio. This is a very different wine.

Speaker 3: 30:55
Yeah. Yeah.

Joe: 30:56
Okay. We're going to take a break and we're going to try our second wine.

Speaker 3: 30:58
Okay.

Joe: 31:03
Okay, we're back and we're ready to try our next wine. This is another beautiful tall bottle, but it had a cork, not a screw cap. Right. This is the Fray Solar Ville Vignes Pinot Gris. It's from Al Sauce France. It's also the 2020 vintage. $21.99 at Esquin. 13% alcohol. It's 100% Pinot Gris. And there's no professional ratings that we could find, but Vivino did have it at a 3.9. But let's talk about the color. Dark. It's darker than the last one.

Carmela: 31:31
When I look in your glass, you have more in your glass, almost a hint of orange.

Joe: 31:34
Orange.

Carmela: 31:35
Yeah.

Joe: 31:36
It's almost like amber. It's almost amber colored.

Carmela: 31:39
It's well.

Joe: 31:40
No?

Carmela: 31:40
I mean, there's a little of a maybe a bit of a hue of it. It's dark. Mine? Yeah, almost. I don't know. It's almost darker than the other one.

Joe: 31:47
I almost feel like when I put it against white, it almost has a pinkish hue in it.

Carmela: 31:51
It's really dark. Does it not? I mean, it certainly doesn't look like a peanut green.

Joe: 31:56
No.

unknown: 31:56
No.

Joe: 31:57
It looks like somebody who didn't get enough water in their pee-pee.

Carmela: 32:00
Oh.

Joe: 32:00
Okay, let's smell it and see what we think.

Carmela: 32:03
Hmm. Another big smelling wine.

Joe: 32:05
Different though. I feel like it's more apple-y or something.

Carmela: 32:08
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I'm also kind of getting this is gonna sound odd. But like a little sherbet.

Joe: 32:14
Sherbet! It's not sherbet, people. A little creamy. Sherbet. It's sorbet and sherbet.

Carmela: 32:19
I mean, I don't know where that's coming from, but there's something a little creamy, vanilla-y.

Joe: 32:25
This one is not as aromatic as the last one. It's just not.

Carmela: 32:28
No, I maybe not, but maybe herbs too. I don't know where that's coming from either. Maybe. I I'm with you.

Joe: 32:34
I'm getting almost a little bit like it's minerality, like almost a little seawater on it.

Carmela: 32:38
At first I was smelling, maybe I gave it a good swirl, and then I was smelling more, but yeah, I feel like more apple or melon.

Joe: 32:45
Yeah. Really.

Carmela: 32:46
Like what kind of melon?

Joe: 32:47
I like cantaloupe.

unknown: 32:49
Yeah. Okay.

Joe: 32:50
It doesn't have the same, it's not as aromatic as the last one.

Carmela: 32:55
No, it's not jumping out of the glass.

Joe: 32:56
No, and it doesn't have that same, like we were getting a lot of peach and apricot and honey. I don't think we're getting.

Carmela: 33:01
I'm not getting the honey. We'll see. We'll see.

Joe: 33:04
Well, let's try it and see what we think. Okay. So this to me is like a tamped-down version of the other one. It's got like a little bit of body. It's got some of that spice to it, like cinnamon. It has more apple than peach or apricot. It has some alcohol on it, but it's to me, it's just rounder and it's less intense. Rounder.

Carmela: 33:28
I was gonna say the same thing.

Joe: 33:29
And less intense.

Carmela: 33:30
Yeah, it almost feels a little numbing. Is that weird?

Joe: 33:34
No.

Carmela: 33:34
It just because like you know, like we like those more acidic wines. This is almost like that's the thing I don't like sometimes. It's like when you eat a blueberry and it's just I hate it when I eat a blueberry. No, I love blueberries so much.

Joe: 33:47
I had a bunch today. You got some really nice ones. I put them in my yogurt.

Carmela: 33:50
Oh, you liked those? I felt like those were a little too round for me.

Joe: 33:55
I don't know what that means.

Carmela: 33:56
Well, there's am I a little too round for you? No, never. But you know, like I just feel like they're a little tamped down.

Joe: 34:03
No, no, they were excellent in yogurt.

Carmela: 34:05
In yogurt.

Joe: 34:06
Okay, fine. Let's get back to the wall.

Carmela: 34:07
No, no, but all I'm saying is this feels kind of not, there's not as much spunk. There's not as much personality in this one.

Joe: 34:15
No, no, I agree. But I kind of like that a little bit. It's a little tamped down, it's a little calmer. It has a lot of the same aspects. It does have that alcohol-y church wine taste. There's a little bit of church wine to this. Like you didn't drink church wine the way I drank church wine. Yeah, I just get back there and just drank. Oof.

Carmela: 34:32
10 a.m.

Joe: 34:32
10 a.m. But it really, it's got like there is a hard edge to the alcohol on it.

Carmela: 34:39
For me, I hate to say this, but this wine to me is boring. That's so mean. I mean, it's not a bad wine, but it's I don't find it that why don't split it out. Do you find it that interesting?

Joe: 34:53
I mean, I'm kind of liking it. I guess it's not as exciting as your previous boyfriends or anything like that. But maybe all this overmarried stuff. Maybe it's good enough to just stick with. I don't know.

Carmela: 35:06
Honey, you I would never compare you to this bottle.

Joe: 35:09
Or your old boyfriends?

Carmela: 35:10
No, but y'all.

Joe: 35:11
She never talks about her old boyfriends. Thank God.

Carmela: 35:15
Because I'm overmarried now.

Joe: 35:17
No, you're undermarried. Anyway, any other flavors?

Carmela: 35:20
Just I'm not, again, it's kind of cream sickly, kind of sherbet.

Joe: 35:24
It is creamy.

Carmela: 35:25
Kind of, um, but it's just not my style. Okay. And I think the problem is I just couldn't. It's it's too maybe it's too sweet or too rattled.

Joe: 35:35
There's not a little bit on the sweet side, too.

Carmela: 35:37
Yeah, there's just not, you know me, I do like I do know you. I like some sour or tender or acidity in a lot.

Joe: 35:44
Not as much sweet.

Carmela: 35:45
Not as much sweet. In wine. It's funny. And I have a sweet tooth. So it's very odd.

Joe: 35:50
But what food would you pair with this fray solar?

Carmela: 35:52
I think you could do a lot of the same. I think this would do well with spicy foods for sure. Even like a spicy pizza. Like sometimes we'll get, you know, like a um, like a meaty pizza that has some meat on it. For some reason that sounds kind of good with this. Wow. Yeah. What do you think?

Joe: 36:08
No, I think some of the same foods, but I think it's less intense. So I don't know if it would really stand up to barbecue, like we were talking about. True. I think it's more of a fried fish. I think it could do well with spicy foods, but I think it's more of a fried fish. Like fried calamari would be great with it.

Carmela: 36:24
Oh, that would be nice. Yeah, you could you could do that for sure.

Joe: 36:27
But the poke bowl I had last night would work great. Like I think it would be great with this. Sushi, I think it'd be nice with sushi. They'd be good with spicy foods. I think the fact that it's a little less intense makes it a good food wine. I actually think it's a very good food wine. Gastronomic, that word that you hate. So, what rating I didn't give this wine? I'm I'm worried about this. I feel I feel like you like the Pinot Grigio better than the Pinot Gris right now.

unknown: 36:52
I I do.

Joe: 36:53
I think you do.

Carmela: 36:54
I think I do. Yeah. I'm sorry.

Joe: 36:56
Okay, what rating are you giving?

Carmela: 36:58
Um I I feel like I'm being very critical today. You know what? It's okay. I don't know because I maybe on another day I'd like it a little more. But I just it's just not doing it for me. I mean, I want to. The thing is, I could give both of these uh fives. I could give them both six. Well, you gotta make a choice here. I could finish this. I could finish it. Um I'm gonna give it, I'm gonna give this one a I think I'm gonna also give it a five.

Joe: 37:26
Wow. I'm giving this one definitely a six. I'm tempted to give it a seven.

Carmela: 37:30
Okay.

Joe: 37:31
I don't know that I would buy it. It's again one of those wines where I I'm kind of liking it. I'm liking it. I'm enjoying drinking it. I would uh this one is a little less like your Chardonnay lover, your California Chardonnay lover's wine. Right because it's it's not as big. It's it's just doesn't have the same girth to it. Yeah, I like it better. I'm enjoying it more, and I think I would- I would drink this over a Chardonnay any day. Agreed. And I and uh I like this better than the first one, but they're both sixes to me right now. Okay. Which of these two would you finish tonight?

Carmela: 38:00
I actually think the second one.

Joe: 38:02
This one? Yeah.

Carmela: 38:03
Okay, good.

Joe: 38:04
I think so.

Carmela: 38:04
What about you?

Joe: 38:05
Yeah, I think so. I think right now I would. The first one is just so big. Right. So overpowering. Okay, let's talk about the taste profiles and if we nailed them from an all-sauce Pinot Gris, aromas of ripe stone fruits like peach and apricot, alongside tropical notes of mango, melon, and pineapple. Also include honey suckle, I would just say honey, dandelion, which is interesting that you mentioned that, and oolong tea. I wasn't getting a lot of tea. Sometimes autumnal smells of smoke, mushrooms, wet wool, and wilting leaves. I didn't get that. Uh on the palate, it can be full-bodied, oily, or uncuous, creamy, buttery, like licking wax paper. That's interesting. Oh, yeah.

Carmela: 38:44
I don't think talks about the beeswax.

Joe: 38:46
Yeah, I don't think, yeah. I think for the first one especially, typical flavors include nectarine, tangerine, and kumquat. Never had one of those. Spiciness, ginger, that's a good one. Cinnamon, and clove. Almost tannic on the finish. I agree with that.

Speaker 4: 39:00
Okay.

Joe: 39:01
Pierre Sparr of the winery says this Pinot Gris is yellow gold. Agree, with expressive and complex aromas of white blossoms and not orange blossom. No, but you know, close. And grilled bread. Oh. That's kind of I didn't get any drink that either at all. On the palate, it's well structured, generous, with an elegant touch of spice. Yes. Wine enthusiasts said honeysuckle. Oh, perfect. Just say honey. Just say honey. Why do you have to say honeysuckle? And pear on the nose lead into a wine with a similarly soft and slightly sweet notes and texture. Wine has a light and silky mouthfeel. Light and silky. It's practically punch you in the face.

Speaker 3: 39:37
Yeah.

Joe: 39:37
Everything about it is pretty and feathery, like a tutu dancing across the palate. I am not joking. It's fun and easy to drink, ending on a juicy Bosque pear note. I can see that. They're a little spicy Bosque pears sometimes. Uh Frey Solar, the winery. I couldn't find anything. The only thing I find is something from Vin's France. I don't know what this website. Very full-bodied, medium-bodied, with great finesse. Stands out for its very fine balance on wine for aging.

Speaker 3: 40:05
Huh.

Joe: 40:06
Maybe. That's it. What's your verdict on Alsace Pinot Gris? This is gonna be a tough one for us.

Carmela: 40:11
I'm I'm just it's not gonna be like a chosen box for me that often.

Joe: 40:16
Again, friends, this is just our taste. And if you've listened to us for a while, you know our taste.

Carmela: 40:22
Our taste is a lot of people might want to go out and buy this and try this.

Joe: 40:26
I fully agree.

Carmela: 40:27
I do think this is because it could be a wine that's pretty popular with people.

Joe: 40:30
I think if you this is a wine you have to taste. Yes. It's a wine you have to try. You should go out and buy some. It we did not not like it. So let's just be clear there. There's no not liking it. It's just not really, it doesn't hit our mark for what we would buy, but that doesn't mean anything. No. That's just us.

Carmela: 40:47
Right.

Joe: 40:48
Who are we? We're just overmarried or undermarried or whatever we are. Right. Who knows?

Carmela: 40:52
We've been married for a long time.

Joe: 40:53
Yes, we've we're we've been overmarried.

Carmela: 40:55
This means we're overmarried.

Joe: 40:57
Okay.

Carmela: 40:58
Oh, you're over being married? I'm kind of over it. Okay.

Joe: 41:02
Now it's time to head over to our news desk so that we can cover our wine in the news this week segment. This will be a good one, Carmilla. Wine in the news this week. Our wine in the news this week comes from an aviation blog called View from the Wing, written by Gary Leff, L E F F. Links are in the show notes, as always. And the article is entitled, Flight a Tenants Serve Fake Sparkling Wine in First Class. Oh no. And claimed it was American Airlines Policy.

Speaker 4: 41:37
What?

Joe: 41:37
And not only is this a kind of a crazy story, it has hints to recent experience that Carmela and I had in terms of first class. So let me just tell you something. If you want to save your marriage, we were booked on flights to San Francisco, the same flight, but different tickets.

Carmela: 41:52
Was this in the news?

Joe: 41:53
No, I'm just saying this is this is a personal story. Personal story. I'm trying telling all the men out there, if you want to save your marriage, this is what you do. I was bumped up. I because I have higher status. I was bumped up to first class. Carmela, who was on a different, like, because she was coming back on a later day, was on a different ticket, and she was in comfort plus or whatever. And so I called, I called, and I was like, hey, buddy. And I I just said, Can is there anything you can do? And the lady was like, I'll put it through, but you know, you better enjoy Comfort Plus while your wife goes into first class. But Carmela, what happened?

Carmela: 42:26
Well, first of all, when he told me he was upgraded, I said, No problem, buddy. Go to that first class.

Joe: 42:32
She might have preferred it, actually.

Carmela: 42:34
Yeah, I was like, no problem. But so just, you know, for the record, I was gonna totally allow him to go.

Joe: 42:40
She wouldn't have even been mad, which is the worst part about it.

Carmela: 42:43
It was not a very long flight either. But then what happens is that Joe was the squeaky wheel, and he has learned that you just asked. You just asked nicely. Asked nicely. So all of a sudden, and I can't, he said, Oh, we can do miles, we can do this to put you in first class. And I was like, no, no, no. Sure enough, after that phone call. I just asked. He just asked. And within what, an hour? Yeah. I had been bumped up to first class. So but I want to know about this sparkling class.

Joe: 43:11
Yeah, so let's go. On March 28th, a woman boarded American Airlines Flight 3394, which ran from Miami to Greenville, Spartanburg, in South Carolina. I don't know why that's important, but she was in first class like Carmela. She ordered a glass of sparkling wine, like Carmela. She had two glasses, unlike Carmela, who usually only has one, apparently enjoyed them, and then asked for a third. And this which Carmela often does. And this is this is what happened. The flight attendant came back with something that, in the passenger's own words, tasted terrible. And then instead of just apologizing and say that say saying they were out of it, the flight attendant leaned over and explained that when the airline rents out of sparkling wine, she had been told to mix still Chardonnay with carbonated water. And that it was company company policy.

Carmela: 43:58
So they ran out of The spark. Sparkling water. It wasn't that she was trying, like, lady, you've had too much to drink.

Joe: 44:04
No, but the other thing is instead of saying, I'm sorry, we're out, can I get you something else? She put sparkling water and Chardonnay together.

Carmela: 44:10
She was still giving her alcohol. I get it. I get it. We have seen people really throw them down on plane rides.

Joe: 44:17
This is true, but nothing to do with this.

Carmela: 44:19
I know.

Joe: 44:19
The passenger was pissed, Carmela, and is reported to have said that it was the worst possible thing you could do to your customers. I actually think there are worse things you could do to your customers. Right.

Carmela: 44:28
At least it was still wine.

Joe: 44:30
Yeah. I mean, there are so many other things I think could be the worst possible. Like if this is the worst possible thing, you live a very privileged life. But anyway, Gary Leff, the writer, who had been covering the airline industry. L E F F that's right, since 2002, is very clear that this almost certainly was not an actual American Airlines policy. And he said that if there was a company memo that told flight attendants to mix Chardonnay and sparkling water whenever they ran out of sparkling wine, someone would have leaked it at some point. You'd think that would have gotten out.

Carmela: 45:02
Do you think that wasn't like she was just ad-limbing a little bit, like just on the fly?

Joe: 45:06
Well, this is what Gary has to say. What he thinks happened is that he calls it galley gossip. And the idea that flight attendants sometimes learn their procedures from each other rather than from official training, and that over time maybe somebody improvised, improvised this and it was like passed along as lore and then became thought of as like official training. There's also a little history here to know about. In 2024, American Airlines quietly dropped printed wine lists from first and business class, inviting passengers instead to just ask the flight attendants about what was available. And at the time, Gary noted that the flight attendants had been given no extra training on the wines being offered. When the airline took away the list, they didn't train the staff and didn't make sure that the planes were adequately stocked. And so this is the kind of stuff that happens. So, Carmela, like last weekend, you're in first class, you've had two glasses of sparkling wine, which means like you're having a good time, and you ask for a third, and the flight attendant hands you a glass of Chardonnay mixed with sparkling water and tells you it's company policy. What do you do?

Carmela: 46:09
Well, I don't think I would care that much. I think I would just say, look, actually, I think it's better to just give you the Chardonnay.

Joe: 46:17
Yeah. Or just don't give me if like if that's all you got to do. We're out, we're out. What are you gonna do? Would you say it's the worst thing a company could do to you?

Carmela: 46:24
No, no, but I do I don't think I think it was kind of silly.

Joe: 46:28
It was dumb.

Carmela: 46:29
Yeah, I feel like you just say, hey, we're out of it.

Joe: 46:31
Exactly.

Carmela: 46:32
So what about you? What would you do?

Joe: 46:34
I would just be like, hey, bro, it's good. We're good.

Carmela: 46:36
That's no problem. Yeah.

Joe: 46:37
Just I don't want that.

Carmela: 46:39
No.

Joe: 46:39
Like it's good. I I don't need to drink anymore.

Carmela: 46:41
Right.

Joe: 46:42
You'd hope that people would be not rude about it. No. It'd just be like kind of cool about it. Okay. Carmel, we have some listener shout-outs this week. And so we and we love it when you reach out to us and tell us what you think, what you're drinking, all that fun stuff. Timmy! We got the chance to cover his big baller wine in our newsletter. And he liked the Sakai interview, so thanks for that. And he sent us more names for the tribe, like I said. And he said he also loves Moussar, which is one of the Lebanese wines we did last week. And he's met one of the Moussar family. Wow. Come on, Timmy, you're big timing us.

Carmela: 47:13
My goodness.

Joe: 47:13
Janine reached out and said she's liked the Costco Kirkland Bordeaux Blanc, so that's awesome to know. Well, look for that. Ryan, who was just checking in, and he shared a rose from Puglia that he was drinking.

Carmela: 47:25
Wow.

Joe: 47:25
So we love that.

Carmela: 47:26
That is cool.

Joe: 47:27
And then Adrian just reached out and shared a wine in the news this week's worthy story about a bourbon robbery in Philadelphia where 11,000 bottles were stolen. It's like, people, what is it with stealing alcohol? I don't know. Get over it. Just buy it. Anyway, uh, wines coming up in future episodes in case you want to drink along with us. We're gonna do Italian Sangiovese, that's not Chianti. And by the way, if you go to our show notes, you can see the exact wines, the vintages, and even links if you want to buy them. We're gonna do Moscato, including the Costco Kirkland signature Moscato, Verdejo, Gigondas, Vermentino, which is a great Italian wine that's getting a lot of pub right now. So we're gonna do that. And the Costco Kirkland Chateau Neuf de Pop, and we're gonna compare it to another Château Neuf-de-Pop. And Carmelo's not gonna be happy when she learns how much I spent on the other Chateau Neuf top. I don't need to know. No, you don't need to know. But thank you for listening to us and supporting our show. And remember, we buy all of our own wine and we do all the writing and recording and editing to bring you a show every week because we absolutely love doing it. And our small little ask for you is that you please follow or subscribe to our podcast, and also please leave us a nice rating and review to help us score our listeners. And a huge thank you to all of you who have done so already. You can also follow us on Instagram and Blue Sky at the WinePear Podcast. You can contact us on our website, thewinepairpodcast.com, sign up for our email newsletter there, visit our shop wine section where you can find links to buy the wines that we rate as buys in each episode. And we want to make content you care about and that you like, so send us a note or DM us on our on our socials and give us some feedback or let us know if there's wines you want us to try or if you're overmarried. Let us know if you're overmarried and show us a picture of you and your spouse, and we will judge.

Carmela: 49:06
We want we'll let you know. Well, we've talked about different meanings of overmarried. True.

Joe: 49:10
Which overmarried you mean.

Carmela: 49:12
Right.

Joe: 49:12
So you can always reach out to Joe at the winefairpodcast.com. But with that, we're gonna sign off. So thank you once again. We'll see you next time. And like we like to say, life is short, so stop drinking shitty wine, lightly.

Carmela: 49:23
Bye. And stop too much, I always drink too much, I always drink too much, I would drink too much, when it would be too much, when it too much, when I do much,