Getting Serious About Rosé: Thanksgiving Edition! (Why alcohol content in wine is a consideration for pairing)

Show Notes

Episode 145: Getting Serious About Rosé: Thanksgiving Edition! 00:00

Hello! And welcome to The Wine Pair Podcast. I’m Joe, your sommelier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime, Carmela. And we are The Wine Pair! 

If you are new to our podcast, here is a quick orientation! Each week, we explore a different wine varietal or blend or wine for a season or holiday — like Albariño or Nebbiolo or wines for Thanksgiving — and dive into how to make great choices and what makes new wines worth learning about. Our goal is to help you expand your wine knowledge in a fun way that normal people can understand. We also taste and review 2-3 wines under $20 each, and share our scores and recommendations to help you find great wines without breaking the bank. So, thank you so much for joining us! And, we are proud to say that Decanter Magazine calls us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining. 

Well, Carmela, can you believe that Thanksgiving is only a few weeks away? It always seems to come so fast, and I think we have discussed this before, but it has always been one of my favorite holidays. I think because it is somewhat simple - it’s focused on a meal - there are no gifts, or costumes, or cards or anything like that that get in the way, so I think for me it just feels a little bit more like a hangout day than anything else. And it really sort of kicks-off the bigger Holiday season, so it’s also just sort of a special day.

Now, I admit, if you are the one primarily in charge of making the dinner and/or you are the one having people at your house, it can be stressful - there is a lot of cleaning and prepping and cooking to do, and it is kind of a tricky meal to get right because it is not a meal that you make very often, and so I get it if it stresses some people out. And, sometimes people may not have awesome family situations, and so for some it can be a challenging day, so we do want to recognize that. 

What is your take on it?

Well, one of the things I like about Thanksgiving is that it is a fun meal to try and pair wine with, and I think it is a meal that you can, and probably should, consider having a couple of different kinds of wine with - not just one wine. That’s boring!

We have done two previous episodes on Thanksgiving wine choices if you want to check them out. Last year, we did one called “Bonkers for Beaujolais” and Beaujolais, or Gamay wine, is a great Thanksgiving wine. It’s very similar in some ways to Pinot Noir, so it is a great light red wine that you can serve slightly chilled, and you can learn all about it, and one of our highest rated wines ever, if you look for that episode. It was one of only I think one or two wines we have ever given a 10 out of 10 to.

And then before that we did an episode on a different festive wines you can serve, like Gewürztraminer and a sparkling Syrah - which I think we are going to do a whole episode about in a few weeks as a fun Holiday wine - and we did do a Rosé in that episode, and so check that episode out if you want to know more about those wines.

But on that note, we are going to dedicate this whole episode to Rosé wines you can serve for Thanksgiving, and as a special treat, we are going to do three different kinds of Rosé wines so that you can have some choice, and maybe you want to serve all three kinds. And so we are combining a Getting Serious About Rosé episode with a Thanksgiving episode. How fucking fun is that? 

And, that is actually another important note - remember that Rosé is a style of wine, a technique for making wine, rather than being a wine in and of itself. And that can be very confusing for people. 

Rosé wines are wines made with red wine grapes that spend less than 24 hours on the skins of the grapes, and that is where the pink or rose color comes from. The juice for most wine grapes is clear, so it is the skin of the grape that gives almost all red and Rosé wines their color. White wines are not necessarily wines made with white grapes, they are wines where the juice spends no time on the skins, and orange wines are wines made with white wine grapes that spend time on the skin to get some color and flavors and tannins. 

So, that’s a lot, and you can check out previous episodes and minisodes on Rosé and Getting Serious About Rosé and Orange wine, but today, we are talking about Rosé wines for Thanksgiving. And the most important thing to remember is that a Rosé wine is going to vary a lot by what kind of grapes it is made from, and today we are going to taste and review a Rosé made from Syrah, Cabernet Sauv, and a bit of Grenache, a Sparkling Rosé made from Pinot Noir, and a Rosato, which is an Italian term for Rosé made from Rondinella, a wine from Valpolicella in Italy that you hardly ever see made into a wine on its own, and we’ll see which ones we recommend for you . . . 

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ARTICLES and LINKS

• https://thewinepairpodcast.com/episode/thanksgiving-wine-bonkers-for-beaujolais-the-perfect-thanksgiving-wine-a-1010-point-wine-high-qpr-wines-avoid-beaujolais-nouveau
• https://legrandcourtage.com/a-guide-to-rose-what-it-is-how-it-is-made-and-what-it-pairs-with/?srsltid=AfmBOooOh_sd-Azo4rmlANgNpGvAUsO0ed9FirmxBmL4gHtOHzjFtKgU
• https://thewinepairpodcast.com/episode/festive-and-unique-thanksgiving-wines-showstoppers-sparkling-red-wine-crisp-and-spicy-white-fruity-and-acidic-rose-beautiful-wines-and-bottles-great-gifts 

Topic: Why Rosé Is a Great Wine for Thanksgiving, and What to Look For in a Rosé for Thanksgiving 11:10

Now, I will say from the outset, some people find Rosé to be a difficult wine to pair with food, and I think this has to do with the fact that a lot of people associate Rosé mostly with one particular type of Rosé, and that is Rosé from Provence which tends to be pretty light, fragrant, and very strawberry oriented, and can be a little tricky to pair with a lot of foods. 

But today we are going to break you out of that rut, blow your minds, and tell you why Rosé is awesome for Thanksgiving!

First, when looking for a Thanksgiving wine, you want to look for wines that are versatile, food friendly, crowd pleasing, and won’t overpower or clash with the flavors of the dinner. Because Thanksgiving dinner combines a lighter white meat in turkey with some buttery, salty, greasy, and rich foods like stuffing, mashed potatoes, and gravy, you need something with good acidity, and not something that is super heavy or has dark red fruit flavors. You want light, bright wines, that are also dry. A Cabernet Sauvignon, therefore, is a bad combo. You also want to avoid wines that have a lot of tannins and or are big bodied. They will overpower the meal and you will only taste the wine. One thing to think about is that I would avoid wines that are high in alcohol - like think 13% and under. 

So, this is where Rosé comes in! A dry rosé, and I emphasize dry, is an excellent choice for Thanksgiving dinner because it offers a unique combination of refreshing quaffability, food-pairing versatility, and a taste profile that complements the diverse dishes you are going to eat. On a side note, if the bottle does not tell you if a wine is dry or not, look at the alcohol content. Dry wines have more alcohol, and sweet wines are lower. Anything sub 11.5% alcohol is getting sweet. So, we are kind of giving you a narrow alcohol window to shoot for - basically between 11.5% - 13%

Dry Rosé is great because it is crisp, acidic, and fresh, with a lighter body and not a lot of tannins. Dry  Rosé will not clash with savory dishes, and won’t overwhelm delicate flavors. In fact, the flavors in good dry Rosé will not only not mask the flavors of the food, it can really enhance them. 

Today, we are also going to taste a sparkling Rosé, and those are particularly good choices for a few reasons. First, sparkling wines are just festive, and a Rosé sparkling wine will just be a beautiful addition to your table. But more than that, you really want to focus on brut sparkling wines, and remember, in sparkling brut means dry and dry means sweet, oh dear God, but brut sparkling wines are awesome because the bubbles can actually enhance the food and cleanse the palate. And you want brut because you really don’t want to have sweet wine with the meal - wines that are sweet will overpower your palate and tire it out. We love sparkling wine, and sparkling Rosé made from Pinot Noir, which most of them are, is a fantastic choice because it is crisp and complex. 

And, finally, Rosatos, which are again the Italian name for Rosé wines, can be great choices, too. Like all Rosé wines, the flavor is going to change a lot based on the specific grapes that are used, and some Rosatos can be a little rustic, which is fun. A lot of Rosato wines are made from Sangiovese, which is the grape in Chianti wines, but they can also be made from Merlot, Grenache, Pinot Noir, and Syrah. These Rosatos tend to have a bit of body to them, but still have some crispness and acidity, and so pair really well with Thanksgiving foods. They can handle all that the food can throw at them!

So don’t believe it when people say that Rosé wines are too sweet or are summer wines or don’t have enough body or zip to them. We’re here to tell you that if you choose the right Rosé or Rosato, you can drink them all the way through Thanksgiving, from football to the main meal. 

So, on that note, I think it’s time to learn a little more about the specific wines we are drinking today. 

ARTICLES and LINKS

• https://www.argusleader.com/story/wineblog/2014/11/19/thanksgiving-wine-pairings/19277425/
• https://www.gastronomista.com/2017/11/9-reasons-to-drink-rose-for-thanksgiving.html
• https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanettehurt/2022/11/20/pair-your-turkey-with-ros-wine-this-thanksgiving/
• https://legrandcourtage.com/a-guide-to-rose-what-it-is-how-it-is-made-and-what-it-pairs-with/?srsltid=AfmBOooOh_sd-Azo4rmlANgNpGvAUsO0ed9FirmxBmL4gHtOHzjFtKgU
• https://www.argonautliquor.com/products/13786025/tenuta-sant-antonio-scaia-rosato-2022 
• https://www.palateclub.com/rose-wine-pairings-thanksgiving/ 

 
Different Rosé Wines We Chose for This Episode 19:23

As usual, all of the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $20, and at least two of them should be easy to find because I bought one on wine.com and one at QFC which is a local Kroger store, and is a really well known wine. The third wine is not the most common, and I bought it on Last Bubbles, but finding a sparkling Rosé in and of itself is not difficult, but finding one that is brut and made from Pinot Noir could take some searching.

So, the first wine we are going to taste and review is a wine that should be pretty easy to find, and it is the 2023 Chateau Ste Michelle Rosé from Columbia Valley. I found it really hard to find much information about his wine, but I can tell you that it is made from 55% Syrah, 43% Cabernet Sauvignon, and 2% Grenache, and on the label it says dry, crisp, and elegant. Which sounds right for Thanksgiving!

The blend is interesting because wines from the southern part of France, like Provence and Rhône Valley would be made with grapes like Syrah and Grenache, but the Cabernet Sauvignon part of it is throwing me off a bit, because Cabernet is not usually grown in those areas. And that may surprise some of you to know because in the US, it feels like we grow any wine grape anywhere, but in France, grape growing regions are more specific.

So on to the next wine which is the 2023 Scaia Rosato from the Veneto region of Italy. This wine is made from a grape called Rondinella, which you are probably not familiar with, but it is one of the grapes often found in Valpolicella and Amarone della Valpolicella along with another grape called Corvina. 

Rondinella is a very dark grape, so it takes very little skin contact to make it pink, and it is usually a blending grape and is considered rustic, hearty, and sugary. I was able to find a tech sheet, and there a few interesting notes, like that it undergoes batonnage once a week after fermentation until it is bottled. Batonnage is the fancy way of saying that it is stirred once a week so the sediments and other funk mix around in the wine and give it depth of flavor and mouthfeel.

It ages for about 3 months, it is not vegan, and is low in residual sugar and so is considered dry. Because of the interesting grape and winemaking process, this could be a fun wine for Thanksgiving. 

The last wine we are going to drink is the Hubert Meyer Crémant d'Alsace Brut Rose'. Now, Crémant is fun because it is a famous sparkling wine made in France that is not Champagne. We did an episode on Crémant a while back, but I have to say it is one of my favorite sparklings, is very underrated, and is often reasonably priced, especially compared to Champagne, but it is made in the same style and with the same technique as Champagne. I won’t go into a ton of detail, but I have a link to an article in our show notes about it that you can click on, but there are eight regions in France and one in Luxembourg that are allowed to make Crémant, and this one happens to come from Alsace in France, as the name would imply.

This wine is made from 100% Pinot Noir, and remember that that is one of the grapes in Champagne and most brut Rosé sparkling wines. It is fermented for two months in stainless steel tanks for its first fermentation, and then spends 18 months in its second fermentation. And this is a nice, brut - or low sugar - sparkling wine. 

But, I think that is enough information - let’s get to drinking! We’ll take a quick break and be right back. And, if you have these wines or similar wines, drink along with us!


ARTICLES and LINKS

• https://www.saratogawine.com/product/chateau-ste-michelle-rose-2023-750ml/?srsltid=AfmBOoqJb2JuO-NuWa9KOe-S6sgCTP2O3EbXnj-gCv7A4KFa6yEm23rm 
• https://wineonsale.com/products/scaia-rosato-igt-100-rondinella-750-ml
• https://www.dallaterra.com/tech-sheet/scaia-rosato-veneto-igt 
• https://winefolly.com/deep-dive/cremant-wine/ 
• https://hmercerimports.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/HM_OW_FR_A_Hubert-CremantRose-comp.pdf 

2023 Chateau Ste Michelle Columbia Valley Rosé, 2023 Scaia Rosato, Hubert Meyer Crémant d'Alsace Brut Rose' Wine Tasting, Pairing, and Review 26:49

Wine: Chateau Ste Michelle Columbia Valley Rosé 
Region: Washington, Columbia Valley
Year: 2023
Price: $8.99
Retailer: QFC
Alcohol: 12.5%
Grapes: 55% Syrah, 43% Cabernet Sauvignon, and 2% Grenache

What we tasted and smelled in this Chateau Ste Michelle Columbia Valley Rosé:

• Color: Pretty, light pink, coral, like a jewel
• On the nose: Raspberry, pomegranate, lime and grapefruit citrus, apple, pear, Asian pear, peach, creamy, watermelon, complex smell 
• In the mouth: Easy drinking, starts sweet ends dry, watermelon, tangy, raspberry, zippy, lemon acidity, fresh flowers, looks beautiful on the table, crowd pleaser

What Thanksgiving foods will pair this Chateau Ste Michelle Columbia Valley Rosé: Mashed potatoes and gravy, Turkey, stuffing
 
As a reminder on our rating scale, we rate on a scale of 1-10, with no half points, where 7 and above means that we would buy it, and 4 and below means that we are likely to pour it down the sink, and a 5 or 6 means we are likely to drink it and finish it, but we are probably not going to buy it. 

Chateau Ste Michelle Columbia Valley Rosé Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 7/10
• Carmela: 9/10

Wine: Scaia Rosato (Click here to find this wine on wine.com. We may be compensated if you purchase)
Region: Italy, Veneto
Year: 2023
Price: $14.99
Retailer: wine.com
Alcohol: 12.5%
Grapes: Rondinella
Professional Rating: V 90

What we tasted and smelled in this Scaia Rosato:

• Color: Pink rose colored, almost orange
• On the nose: Rustic initially, grapefruit, some bitterness, yeast, lemon, peach, watermelon, orange, orange zest
• In the mouth: Very dry, tart, acidic, mouthfeel, medium body, nectarine, apricot, almost has an orange wine flavor, a bit of red wine feel to it

What Thanksgiving foods will pair this Scaia Rosato: Good with turkey and gravy, appetizers, mac and cheese, broccoli salad, green beans with breadcrumbs, versatile

Scaia Rosato Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 9/10
• Carmela: 8/10

A fun different wine to bring for Thanksgiving, a good gift wine


Wine: Hubert Meyer Crémant d'Alsace Brut Rose'
Region: France, Alsace
Year: NV
Price: $18
Retailer: Last Bubbles
Alcohol: 12.5%
Grapes: Pinot Noir
Professional Rating: WE 89

What we tasted and smelled in this Hubert Meyer Crémant d'Alsace Brut Rose':

• Color: Barbie pink, small bubbles
• On the nose: Apple, peach, sweet bread, apple danish, smells like you walked into a bakery, warm smell, sweet cherry, sweet strawberry, a touch of lemon
• In the mouth: A bit sweet and bitter on the end, needs to be held in the mouth to get the creamy strawberry flavor, strawberry shake, fun, fizzy pink drink, festive, does not need to super cold

What Thanksgiving foods will pair this Hubert Meyer Crémant d'Alsace Brut Rose': Goes with all the foods and can be had all through dinner

Hubert Meyer Crémant d'Alsace Brut Rose' Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 8/10
• Carmela: 7/10

Which one of these are you finishing tonight?

• Carmela: Chateau Ste Michelle Columbia Valley Rosé
• Joe: Scaia Rosato

But all three were winners and are great choices for Thanksgiving!

Taste profiles expected from 2023 Chateau Ste Michelle Columbia Valley Rosé, 2023 Scaia Rosato, Hubert Meyer Crémant d'Alsace Brut Rose' 46:07

• Chateau Ste Michelle Columbia Valley Rosé
  • Winery: Dry and elegant with beautiful pale pink color hues. Fresh and lively, offering bright aromas of watermelon and raspberry with flavors of wild strawberry, citrus zest and hints of melon.
• Scaia Rosato
  • Winery: This rosé is very fresh and floral and delightfully refreshing
  • Vinous: The salmon-hued 2023 Rosato is quite distinctive and complex, opening with an herbaceous nose of thyme, rosemary and grilled peaches. Bright, juicy and energetic in the mouth, exotic spice notes develop with air, wrapping around a core of tart cherry-berry fruit. This cleans up so nicely on the finish. I'm refreshed, and I'm ready for another sip.
• Hubert Meyer Crémant d'Alsace Brut Rose'
  • 8wines: This wine is an appealing bright pink, with a generous bouquet. You’ll discover scents of strawberry, rose petals, and plenty of mouth-watering sour fruits - green apple, lemon zest and red berries are all present. It’s pleasantly dry in the mouth, with flavours of red fleshy fruit, honey and citrus. There is also a delightful yeasty hint, which calls brioche and sourdough bread to mind. This is a perfect choice if you’re looking for a versatile and food-friendly wine.
  • WE: Mellow red-apple notes with just a hint of strawberry provide the chief aromas on nose and tongue, supported by faint shortbread flavors on a slender palate. The fresh acidity makes this lively and vivid on the dry finish.

Outro and how to find The Wine Pair Podcast 48:00

Ok, so, Carmela, it’s time for us to go, but before we do, we want to thank you very much for listening to us - and if you haven’t done so yet, now would be the perfect time to follow or subscribe to our podcast and also a fantastic time to leave us a nice rating and review on our website or Apple podcasts or other podcast app - and it is an awesome and free way to support us and help us grow listeners.

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Alright, with that, we are going to sign off, so thanks again, and we will see you next time. And, as we say, life is short, so stop drinking shitty wine.

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