Decoy Wine: Should You Buy It, or Duck It?

Show Notes
Episode #236: Decoy Wine: Should You Buy It, or Duck It?  00:00

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KEY QUESTIONS

• Is Decoy wine worth buying?
• What is the difference between Decoy and Duckhorn wines?
• What does Decoy Cabernet Sauvignon taste like?
• Does a wine labeled Cabernet Sauvignon have to be 100% Cabernet Sauvignon
• What does Decoy Sauvignon Blanc taste like?

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Episode Overview and First Thoughts on Decoy wines  00:33
Hello fellow wine Pair-ot Heads! And welcome to The Wine Pair Podcast. I’m Joe, your sommelier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime, Carmela. And we are The Wine Pair! 

If you're new to our podcast, here's what we do: Every week we buy wines under $25 with our own money, taste them, and give you our brutally honest opinion on whether they're worth buying. Nobody pays us to review specific wines, we don't accept free bottles from wineries, and we're not afraid to call out a bad wine when we taste one. Decanter Magazine calls us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining - so if that sounds like your vibe, welcome to our tribe of wine lovers.

Yes, Carmela, the tribe name this week comes from a listener, Chef Paul, and we will share his interview later in the podcast, but again, you have tribe names to share let us know and we will see if you want to be on the podcast!

Ok, this week we are doing something that we do occasionally and that we probably should do a bit more frequently, and that is talking about and tasting and reviewing wines that are mass produced, popular, easy to find, and, frankly, are what are likely on most people’s dinner table. In the past we have done Meomi and Layer Cake and Two Buck Chuck and a few others, and they always seem to be interesting to people. So, this week we are going to talk about Decoy wines. 

This is not the first time we have covered a Decoy wine, by the way. A couple of years ago for our American sparkling wines episodes that we have done around July 4 annually, we did cover their Brut Cuvee and we did rate it a 7 out of 10 which is of course a buy rating for us. So, this is not a wine brand that we are in any way biased against. And we are going to drink one of the Cabernet Sauvignons and a Sauvignon Blanc, and those of you who know us know that those constitute a good cross section for us because we tend not to love Cab Sauvs but we do love Sauv Blanc. 

But before we get there, we want to talk a little bit about Decoy wines and their parent company and sister wines, and give a little background on them so we know a bit more about what we are talking about. 

First, it is worth clearing up who Decoy actually is. Decoy is part of Duckhorn Wine Company, also known as The Duckhorn Portfolio, the same company that owns Duckhorn Vineyards among many others. Duckhorn Vineyards was founded by Dan and Margaret Duckhorn in Napa Valley in 1976. Yes, I was surprised to find that the name of the family was actually Duckhorn. Who knew? The family built its reputation on making high-end Napa wines, particularly Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon.

In 1985, they created the Decoy label, and the intent was to make something more accessible and less expensive. Duckhorn Vineyards wines can be $60 to $100 or more, while Decoy is more reasonably priced in the $15 to $25 range in general. The regular Decoy wines use fruit from vineyards across California and are made to be approachable and ready to drink when you buy them. Duckhorn, the higher-priced label, focuses much more heavily on Napa Valley fruit from its own estate vineyards as well as grapes from longtime grower partners. In fact, Duckhorn owns 298 acres of estate vineyards across five Napa Valley sub-appellations.

Beyond Decoy and the Duckhorn Vineyards label, Duckhorn Wine Company has built a pretty broad portfolio. There are eleven wine brands in all, including these nine in addition to Duckhorn Vineyards and Decoy:

• Paraduxx: In Napa Valley, focused on higher-end Napa Valley red and white blends, generally in the $50 to $100 range.
• Goldeneye, Calera, Migration, and Kosta Browne: Focused largely on cooler-climate Pinot Noir and Chardonnay, these higher-end wine labels span Anderson Valley, the Central Coast, Mt. Harlan, and Sonoma. The wines range from around $30 to more than $200 depending on the label and bottling.
• Sonoma-Cutrer: Sourced from the Russian River Valley and Sonoma County, they are focused mostly on Chardonnay and Pinot Noir, but a bit lower priced at around $25 to $70.
• Canvasback: Sourced from Red Mountain and Walla Walla Valley in Washington State, focused on Cabernet Sauvignon and other Bordeaux varieties, generally around $30 to $40 for the main wines.
• Greenwing and Postmark: Greenwing sources from Washington State and Postmark from Napa Valley. These are more value-focused labels, generally in the $15 to $30 range.

I found this interesting, but most of these brands were actually created by the Duckhorn Wine Company. They only acquired three of them: Calera, Kosta Browne, and Sonoma-Cutrer, which I found pretty surprising because it seems most brands grow through acquisition.

Now, in a few minutes, we’ll go into more depth on Decoy itself, but I think it is fair to say that Duckhorn Wine Company overall is focused on higher-end wines and some pretty serious wine regions. In fact, Decoy, Greenwing, and Postmark are among their more affordable brands, but even those generally fall into what the wine industry would call the premium tier, which starts around $15. So, from my perspective, I think we should expect the wines from Decoy to be pretty good.

And Decoy is actually the biggest label in the entire portfolio. Altogether, The Duckhorn Portfolio sells about 2.7 million cases of wine annually in the U.S., which puts it at roughly the 12th-largest wine supplier in the country by volume. And in late 2024, The Duckhorn Portfolio was acquired by private equity firm Butterfly Equity for $1.95 billion. So, it’s pretty big.

The overwhelming majority of their business is in the United States, but their wines are also distributed internationally, including in Canada, England, France, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Mexico, Colombia, Costa Rica, and a bunch of other countries.

Duckhorn wines also have a pretty good reputation, especially at the higher end labels of the portfolio. In fact, two different wineries in the Duckhorn portfolio have won Wine Spectator’s Wine of the Year. The 2009 Kosta Browne Sonoma Coast Pinot Noir was named Wine Spectator’s No. 1 Wine of 2011 and scored 95 points, and the 2014 Duckhorn Vineyards Three Palms Vineyard Merlot was named Wine Spectator’s No. 1 Wine of 2017, also with 95 points. Duckhorn says this makes it the only wine company in the 21st century to have more than one winery brand in its portfolio win Wine Spectator’s Wine of the Year. And across brands like Goldeneye, Calera, Kosta Browne, and Duckhorn, 94-, 95-, 96-, and even 97-point scores are not unusual. Even Decoy has had wines rated in the 90s.

So, look, this is a serious wine company making some well-regarded wines, so we have some relatively high expectations for this tasting. And on that note, we have two Decoy wines, one a Cabernet Sauvignon and the other a Sauvignon Blanc, to taste and review so we can let you know what we think about them, and then you can decide if you think they are worth drinking.

But first . . . we have to do our shameless plug.

Thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and know that we buy all of the wine we taste and review every week so that we can give you real and honest reviews. If you like what you’re hearing, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a five star rating and review so we can grow listeners.

We also love to hear from you and we always respond so you can follow us on Instagram and Bluesky and TikTok at thewinepairpodcast. You can contact us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com, and you can sign up for our email newsletter there and you can also send us a note at joe@thewinepairpodcast.com and let us know about wines your want us to review or just shoot the breeze, we love chatting it up.

And, as we do every week, we’ll tell you someone we think you should recommend The Wine Pair Podcast to - because the best way for us to grow listeners is when you tell your family and friends about us - and this week, we want you to recommend us to anyone who has an opinion about Decoy wines, because we think they may have something to say, good or bad, affirmative or negative, about this episode!


Topic: WTF is Decoy wine? 12:12

Carmela, let’s find out just what the eff this Decoy brand is all about, shall we?

As we mentioned, Decoy is by far the biggest individual label within the Duckhorn portfolio. As we also mentioned earlier, the Duckhorn Co-founders started Decoy in 1985 as a companion label to Duckhorn Vineyards. In fact, they positioned the wine as the "gateway duck," and Decoy was designed to create high-quality wines at an accessible price point ($15-$25) that could be enjoyed immediately without needing to be aged. 

Decoy initially operated out of Duckhorn's Napa Valley winemaking facility, and focused on a single Napa Valley Red Blend sourced from various vineyards. In 2007, they updated their label, and in 2008, Decoy transitioned from the single red blend into a full standalone brand, releasing single-varietal red wines like Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Zinfandel, and Pinot Noir, and then in 2009 they added Sauvignon Blanc and Chardonnay into the lineup. 

In 2012, they started sourcing their wines from a couple of vineyards they acquired in Sonoma County. First they bought Ridgeline Vineyard and in 2013 they bought Brownell Vineyard. Then, in 2014 they purchased their own production facility in Mendocino which allowed their lead winemaker Dana Epperson and her team to oversee up to 150 individual fermentations. More on Dana in a minute or two . . .

In 2020, they expanded their portfolio a bit. They introduced a higher-end wine called Decoy Limited, then in 2021 introduced Decoy Premium Seltzers, and in 2024, they launched their lower-alcohol and lower-calorie wine called Decoy Featherweight, which I get why they did, but I don’t love. I’m a snob. It looks like the Seltzers may no longer be in the lineup, and the Featherweight expansion is still pretty small but growing. 

In 2024, the core Decoy label sold 1.5 million cases and Decoy Limited added another 190,000 cases, and together they account for approximately 62% of The Duckhorn Portfolio's total annual case volume. Among wines at their higher price level, they are one of the biggest. Market Watch puts Decoy at more than $400 million in U.S. retail sales and says it is the sixth-largest table wine brand in the country among wines priced $10 and above.

I do want to take a minute to talk about their headwinemaker Dana Epperson. She studied food science at Cal Poly, including advanced work in wine analysis and viticulture, and later worked at Artesa under Mark Beringer, who had spent about 15 years at Duckhorn and had risen to become its vice president and director of winemaking. Epperson has said Beringer taught her to use a “light touch” and focus on making classic, balanced wines. She tries to bring that philosophy to Decoy today. 

Even though Decoy is made on a large scale, she and her team still work with as many as 150 separate fermentations in a vintage, using techniques like hand-sorting, open-top punch-downs, lees stirring, and careful oak selection. So her job is really about trying to keep a hands-on, small-lot approach while making wine at a scale where millions of bottles are ultimately sold.

Now, Decoy is not an organic or biodynamic wine, but Epperson does follow sustainable vineyard practices across many of its vineyards. Her approach to oak is also something I was very curious about. Decoy uses French oak in a range of sizes, but Epperson does not seem interested in making oak the dominant flavor. She uses it more to build texture, structure, and some spice and toast while keeping the fruit front and center. So, her style is not really “natural wine” or low-intervention, but she is, again, trying to make balanced wines. 

So, on that note, I think it’s time to learn a little more about the specific wines we are drinking today, and then get to our tasting and review so we can really see what we think, and if we think they are balanced.

Decoy Wines We Chose for This Episode 18:31

As usual, the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $25, and they should be pretty darn easy to find. You should be able to find them at any grocery store or wine shop with little to no problem. Now, your specialty local wine shop will likely not carry them, so that should just be something to expect. But, if you ask nicely, they’ll probably find them for you, or point you to the right store

The first wine we are going to drink is the 2023 Decoy California Cabernet Sauvignon, and this wine got a 91 from Wine Enthusiast and a 7.3 from the Reverse Wine Snob which is a buy rating for them. They liked the taste, but the price is a little high for them. 

I will also note that this wine is technically 76% Cabernet Sauvignon and 24% Merlot. So, as a reminder, US labeling laws allow a wine to be called a single varietal if a single grape makes up 75% of the wine or more. In a lot of other wine-producing countries, though, the threshold is 85%, so this would have to be treated as a Cabernet-Merlot blend rather than simply a Cabernet Sauvignon. The point is, while they can legally call it Cabernet here in the U.S., to me, this is really a blend. And I actually expect I may like it better because of that Merlot.

I was able to find a tech sheet for this wine, but it was a little thin. The grapes were sourced from Sonoma County, Central Coast, and Mendocino County, but there was no indication of what grapes came from where. They also say they aged in 40% new French oak and 60% neutral (or used) French oak for 18 months. So, new oak can be strong, but French oak is lighter than American, and they only oak 40% of the juice on new oak. 

But I couldn’t find much else out about this wine, so let’s move to the next one which is the 2025 Decoy Sauvignon Blanc which got an 88 from Wine Spectator. This wine is 100% Sauvignon Blanc.

Again, the tech sheet wasn’t super valuable, but we did learn that the grapes came from a whole mess of places like the counties of Sonoma, Mendocino, Lake, Santa Barabra, San Joaquin, San Benito. They also say the wine was aged for 6 months in stainless steel, so no oak as you would expect for a Sauvignon Blanc. It should be nice and crisp, although it is high in alcohol at 13.9%, so that will probably tamp down the acidity a bit. Remember, that often happens in California and other warmer climate areas because the grapes get more ripe, which means more sugar and less acidity, and therefore more alcohol because of the higher sugar content. 

But, I think that is enough information - let’s get to drinking! We’ll take a quick break and be right back. And, if you have these wines or similar wines, drink along with us to get some participation points, which you can trade-in for free stickers. You just need to send me an email with your mailing address, and I will get those “I drink with The Wine Pair Podcast” stickers over to you!

LINKS TO SOURCES FOR THESE SPECIFIC WINES

• https://www.duckhornportfolio.com/assets/images/contentblock/files/2023DCCS.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com
• https://www.duckhornportfolio.com/assets/images/contentblock/files/DC23CS.pdf 
• https://www.duckhornportfolio.com/assets/images/contentblock/files/DC25SB.pdf 

 


2023 Decoy California Cabernet Sauvignon, 2025 Decoy Sauvignon Blanc Wine Tasting, Pairing, and Review 23:30

Wine: Decoy California Cabernet Sauvignon (Click here to find this wine on wine.com. We may be compensated if you purchase)
Region: USA, California
Vintage: 2023
Price: $19.97
Retailer: wine.com
Alcohol: 14.1%
Grapes: 76% Cabernet Sauvignon, 24% Merlot
Professional Rating: WE 91, RWS 7.3 (buy) Vivino

What we tasted and smelled in this Decoy California Cabernet Sauvignon: 

• Color: Dark, very purple, almost no red. 
• On the nose: Cherry, hot, alcohol, spice, clove, cinnamon bear, candied cherry licorice, black currant, smoke, pencil lead, leather, very fragrant flowers, 
• In the mouth: Not as punch you in the face as expected, Big Red Gum, cinnamon, cherry, tart, pomegranate, acid, almost sour, raspberry, smoky, tight grippy sticky tannins, decent mouthfeel, astringent, over-extracted

Food to pair with this Decoy California Cabernet Sauvignon: Spicy food, putanesca, bolognese, briny, steak fajitas, teriyaki flank, heavily marinated meat
 
As a reminder on our rating scale, we rate on a scale of 1-10, with no half points, where 7 and above means that we would buy it, and 4 and below means that we are likely to pour it down the sink, and a 5 or 6 means we are likely to drink it and finish it, but we are probably not going to buy it. 

Decoy California Cabernet Sauvignon Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 6/10
• Carmela: 6/10

Wine: Decoy Sauvignon Blanc (Click here to find this wine on wine.com. We may be compensated if you purchase)
Region: USA, California
Vintage: 2025
Price: $16.97
Retailer: wine.com
Alcohol: 13.9%
Grapes: Sauvignon Blanc
Professional Rating: WS: 88 Vivino

What we tasted and smelled in this Decoy Sauvignon Blanc: 

• Color: Light, vanilla, creamy
• On the nose: Tropical fruit, POG, banana, some creaminess, apple, orchard fruit, lemon, ripe pear, 
• In the mouth: Creamy, a little banana, sharp, steely tartness, tastes like a hard alcohol drink, vodka, a bit aggressive

Food to pair with this Decoy Sauvignon Blanc: Fish and chips, spicy food, General Tso's chicken, chicken chow mein, spicy dumplings, rice cakes, spicy tuna roll


Decoy Sauvignon Blanc Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 6/10
• Carmela: 6/10

Which one of these are you finishing tonight?

• Carmela: Decoy Sauvignon Blanc
• Joe: Decoy Sauvignon Blanc

The Test: Did we nail the taste profiles expected from Decoy Cabernet Sauvignon and Decoy Sauvignon Blanc?  39:02

• 2023 Decoy California Cabernet Sauvignon. 
  • Winery: Dark cherry, raspberry, baking spice, cola, and subtle toasty oak form a focused aromatic profile that feels both inviting and balanced. The palate offers dark juicy blackberry supported by silky tannins, medium oak structure, and bright acidity that keeps the wine lively. A smooth, creamy texture carries through to a long, balanced finish.
  • WE: The core aromas are opulent black currant, boysenberry, sweet cigar, integrated French oak, and dried florals on the nose; the flavors on the palate suggest baked plum, blackberry, candied orange, bittersweet chocolate, and grippy tannins on the finish.
• Decoy Sauvignon Blanc
  • Winery: Bright and vibrant, this Sauvignon Blanc opens with aromas of tropical fruit, tangy citrus and a touch of vanilla spice. The palate balances lively acidity with a creamy, rounded texture, unfolding layers of juicy stone fruit and tropical flavors. A long finish is marked by a lingering note of kiwi, leaving a fresh,resounding impression.
  • WS: Breezy notes of Key lime and golden kiwifruit blitz through in this refreshing version, which sports lively acidity on the Fresca-tinged finish

What is our verdict on Decoy wines? 41:33
Safe play, good for large groups, pretty good price point. Solid. We get it if Decoy is your thing, A pretty good mass market wine. 

And now it is time to head over to our news desk so that we can cover our wine in the news this week segment.

Wine in the news this week: Michael Burry backs fine wine as hedge against AI ‘hellscapes’.  42:47

• https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2026/09/michael-burry-backs-fine-wine-as-hedge-against-ai-hellscapes/ 

Our wine in the news this week comes from Richard Woodard writing for The Drinks Business, and the article is called "Michael Burry backs fine wine as hedge against AI ‘hellscapes’." Links are in the show notes as always.

Michael Burry is the investor who bet against the housing market before the 2008 crash and made a fortune doing it, the guy Christian Bale played in The Big Short - a movie I just rewatched recently. Burry has spent years trashing cryptocurrency, at one point calling Bitcoin the tulip bulb of our time, and now he has landed on something else as the place to put your money: wine! And not just any wine, but we’ll talk more about that in a second.

On his Substack, Burry writes about how he is worried that AI and quantum computing are coming for our digital assets. He means bank accounts, investment accounts, pensions, even Social Security and health insurance. As a result, he thinks the dollar keeps losing ground to things you can actually hold in your hand.

So what do you hold instead? Gold is one answer, and Burry says it is already climbing because of this exact fear. But, he says you cannot eat gold, and that’s where wine comes in. And, Burry named the actual wines he means, and they are the ones you would expect to invest in like Petrus, Domaine de la Romanee-Conti, Mouton Rothschild, and on the Italian side, Sassicaia, and Ornellaia. These are wines that sell for thousands of dollars a bottle, and Burry's argument is that demand for them holds up whether the economy is booming or falling apart, because the kind of person who buys them was never counting pennies to begin with.

His reasoning is that a case of one of these wines sitting in your cellar works like a bet against the dollar. It has no connection to the stock market, nobody can print more of a vintage, and supply of each vintage naturally shrinks over time as people drink it.

Burry also pointed out that fine wine has been in what he calls a bit of a depression, with prices down from where they were a few years ago, and so he sees the slump in price as a great reason to buy.

Again, Burry built his reputation on successfully predicting, and profiting from, things that are overvalued and undervalued, including things like technology stocks in the early 2000s to the US housing market after 2005, as well as betting against meme stocks and crypto leverage in the early 2020s.

And he may be onto something. Matthew O'Connell, who runs Bordeaux Index, the largest player in the secondary wine market, backed up Burry's thinking, though it is worth saying he has some obvious bias. He noted prices have corrected, meaning have gone down, since the market peaked back in 2022, but said trading on his platform is up more than 40 percent year over year, which he takes as proof the market is broadening rather than shrinking.

So Carmela, if the world really is heading toward some kind of AI hellscape, would you rather be sitting on a case of Petrus? Is that where you would put your money?


Interview with Chef Paul who gave us the name for the tribe this week 47:34



Listener Shoutouts 50:33

• JDM on Bluesky said that his wife loves light fruity reds so he bought a Cru Beaujolais for her and she didn’t love it
• Timmy said he loves Cru Beaujolais But your mnemonic devices were horrible and I shall remain forever ignorant of the ten crus.
• Janyne K: I hope that you and Carmela (and Mabel!) are doing well. Bodie, our golden retriever, says hi to Mabel! He recommends the "Outward Hound Nina Ottosson Dog Brick" puzzle—his favorite—and the "Outward Hound Nina Ottosson Dog Worker" puzzle. And, of course, the weeble: "Starmark Treat Dispensing Bob-A-Lot." We just got back from a week in Oregon. We spent three days in McMinnville and visited Granville in Dundee Hills, Domaine Divio in Ribbon Ridge, and L'Angolo Estate. We also went to the Björnson Vineyard McMinnville tasting room. Of these, I think Granville and L'Angolo were my favorites. The Björnson tasting was also a lot of fun; I enjoyed the wine, and it was nice to venture outside the Pinot Noir/Chardonnay realm. I have to admit, I was a little bit skeptical of a small place making so many types of wine from so many varietals, but I really enjoyed them all. We also visited a more mass-market vineyard whose wines we can get back home in North Carolina. After all of the boutique places, the mass-market one was... interesting. They had NINE employees—most of whom looked too young to drink or serve alcohol—milling around talking to each other, with zero people talking to customers or discussing their wines. We ended the trip with a few days in Hood River and went to two vineyards in the Columbia Gorge AVA. At AniChe, we accidentally crashed a release party, but they let us in and fed us—they were honestly so nice, and their wines were good, too. They couldn't do a full tasting for us, but my husband had a glass of their 7 Gables 2022 (GSM) and I had their Puck 2025 (sparkling, Charmat method). We also had a tasting at Hawkins. The tasting room associate we worked with, Matt, was super nice!, the wines were good and the whole experience was very nice

Wines coming up in future episodes in case you want to drink along with us 52:35

• Loire Crémant: Gratien Meyer Cremant de Loire Brut, Langlois Cremant de Loire Brut Rose
• Sylvaner: Domaine Mann Mouton Bleu Sylvaner 2022, Hans Wirsching Iphofer Silvaner 2023
• Valdiguie: Cruse Wine Co. Rancho Chimiles Vineyard Valdiguie 2023, Optik French Camp Valdiguie 2022
• Juliet boxed wine: Pinot Noir, Sauvignon Blanc

Outro and how to find The Wine Pair Podcast 52:59

Thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and remember, we buy all of our own wine and we do all of the writing and recording and editing to bring you a show every week because we absolutely love doing it, and our small little ask for you is that you please follow or subscribe to our podcast and also please leave us a nice rating and review  to help us grow our listeners - and a huge thank you to all of you who have done so already! 

You can also follow us on Instagram and Bluesky and TikTok at thewinepairpodcast. You can contact us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com, and you can sign up for our email newsletter there and you can also visit our “Shop Wine” section where you can find links to buy the wines that we rate as buys in each episode.  I will also note that on our website, if you are curious about a wine we have covered in the past, we do have a pretty good search functionality, so you can use that find wines you want to know more about. 

And we want to make content you care about and you like, so send us a note or DM us and give us some feedback or let us know if there are wines you want us to try or wine making areas of the world you are curious about - and we’ll take care of it! joe@thewinepairpodcast.com 

Alright, with that, we are going to sign off, so thanks again, and we will see you next time. And, as we say, life is short, so stop drinking shitty wine.

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FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Q. Is Decoy wine worth buying?
A. Decoy is a safe, solid mass-market choice rather than a must-buy. The 2023 California Cabernet Sauvignon and 2025 Sauvignon Blanc each scored 6/10 from both hosts, who would drink them but wouldn't buy them for themselves. One host called it a great buy for a large group.

Q. What is the difference between Decoy and Duckhorn wines?
A. Decoy is the lower-priced companion label to Duckhorn Vineyards, launched in 1985 and positioned as the "gateway duck" toward the Duckhorn family. Decoy uses fruit from vineyards across California and is made to be ready on release, while Duckhorn Vineyards centers on Napa Valley estate vineyards and can cost $60 or more.

Q. What does Decoy Cabernet Sauvignon taste like?
A. The 2023 Decoy California Cabernet Sauvignon is dark purple with cherry, black currant, cinnamon and smoke, a tart edge, noticeable acidity and grippy tannins. One host found it aggressive and lacking subtlety; the other found it less punchy than expected and a little flat. Both rated it 6/10.

Q. Does a wine labeled Cabernet Sauvignon have to be 100% Cabernet Sauvignon?
A. Not in the United States. Regulations only require that a wine be 75% of a particular grape in order to put the name of that grape on the label. So, the Cabernet Sauvignon on the label does not mean 100% Cabernet Sauvignon. The 2023 Decoy California Cabernet Sauvignon contains 76% Cabernet Sauvignon and 24% Merlot.

Q. What does Decoy Sauvignon Blanc taste like?
A. The 2025 Decoy California Sauvignon Blanc is 100% Sauvignon Blanc at 13.9% alcohol, with tropical fruit, ripe pear and lemon aromas and a creamy note. The palate is creamy but sharp and steely, with a hard-alcohol edge the hosts likened to a lemon drop or vodka. Both hosts rated it 6/10.
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RESEARCH ARTICLES AND LINKS FOR THIS EPISODE

• https://www.reversewinesnob.com/decoy-california-cabernet-sauvignon/
• https://www.decoywines.com/pages/our-story
• https://outerspace.wine/decoy-wines/
• https://www.duckhorn.com/pages/history
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Duckhorn_Portfolio
• https://www.duckhornportfolio.com/assets/client/File/BrandAssets/DuckhornVineyards/2023/DV-History-23.pdf
• https://www.napawineproject.com/duckhorn-vineyards/
• https://www.decoywines.com/pages/winemaking
• https://drinkist.app/blog/decoy-cabernet-sauvignon
• https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-a-wooden-duck-migrated-from-the-california-wetlands-to-a-wine-label
• https://www.winebow.com/system/files/pos/assets/P0011094_Decoy_Brand_Summary.pdf
• https://ryanandcaseyliquors.com/shop/?brands=Decoy 
• https://mainstreetliquor.com/blogs/news/decoy-cabernet-sauvignon-review?srsltid=AU7gw4V4vIBsFRqyeCtssGOkXrVc0UNpYoqQiVyVK25uMY7Mwh2JDzXG
• https://bubblytrail.wordpress.com/2023/07/31/decoy-wines/
• https://owenbargreen.com/blog/2024/2/22/decoy
• https://www.shankennewsdaily.com/2025/05/07/37419/duckhorn-ceo-robert-hanson-on-optimizing-portfolio-investment/ 
• https://www.shankennewsdaily.com/2025/01/13/36707/exclusive-u-s-wine-markets-top-15-plus-brands-rise-2-in-2024/ 
• https://www.shankennewsdaily.com/2025/12/16/38837/imports-sparklers-outperform-in-challenging-wine-market/ 
• https://www.marketwatchmag.com/industry-all-stars/ 
• https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1835256/000183525624000040/napa-20240731.htm 
• https://www.duckhornportfolio.com/contact-us/importers 
• https://www.duckhornportfolio.com/contact-us/distributors 
• https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1835256/000119312524284941/d915995dex991.htm 
• https://www.wineenthusiast.com/buying-guide/decoy-wines-2023-cabernet-sauvignon-california/ 
• https://www.wineenthusiast.com/buying-guide/decoy-wines-2023-red-blend-california/ 
• https://www.vivino.com/en/decoy-cabernet-sauvignon-california/w/1128382?year=2016 
• https://www.vivino.com/en/duckhorn-napa-valley-merlot/w/3474 
• https://top100.winespectator.com/2017/wine/wine-no-1/ 

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FULL TRANSCRIPT

Joe: 00:00
Carmela, you see decoy wines everywhere. But have you ever been intimidated to purchase them? Well, I've been wondering about this name, decoy. It's kind of got you troubled, doesn't it?

Carmela: 00:11
It does. So, I mean, I don't know. I guess we're gonna see.

Joe: 00:15
Well, listen, if you want to know more about decoy wine, if you want to know more about the what the name means, and you wanna know especially if it's a wine you should buy, then you better keep listening. Right. Hello, fellow parrot heads, and welcome to the wine pair podcast. I'm Joe, your Simonier of Reasonably Priced Wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime Carmela.

Carmela: 00:43
Hi there.

Joe: 00:44
And we are the wine pair.

Carmela: 00:46
Woo!

Joe: 00:46
If you're new to our podcast, here's what we do. Every week we buy wines under $25 with our own money. We taste them and give you our brutally honest opinion on whether they're worth buying or not. Nobody pays us to review specific wines. We don't accept free bottles from wineries, and we're not afraid to call out a bad wine when we taste one. Decanter magazine calls us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining. So if that sounds like your vibe, welcome to our tribe of wine lovers or parrot heads.

Carmela: 01:14
Whoa. Yeah.

Joe: 01:15
Carmela, the tribe name comes from a listener, finally.

Carmela: 01:18
Yes, I I figured. Yeah. I knew it.

Joe: 01:20
It's Chef Paul.

Carmela: 01:21
Oh.

Joe: 01:22
And we're gonna share his interview a little bit later in the podcast.

Carmela: 01:25
He's a real chef.

Joe: 01:26
He's a real chef. Like not like fake chef, but real chef. Not like Swedish chef, but like real chef. No way. Yeah. And remember, if you have tribe names that you want to share, let us know. We'll put them on the podcast and we'll ask you if you want to be interviewed. So there. Woo! Okay, Carmella. This week we're doing something that we occasionally do and that we probably should do a bit more frequently. And that is talking about and tasting and reviewing wines that are mass-produced, popular, easy to find, and frankly are what are likely to be on most people's dinner table.

Carmela: 01:59
Okay.

Joe: 02:00
Right? And in the past, we've done Mayomi and Layer Cake and Tube Chuck and some others. And they always seem to be Josh wine. Josh, you're right. And they always seem to be interesting to people. So this week we're going to talk about decoy wines.

Speaker 3: 02:15
Okay.

Joe: 02:15
Yeah. And this is not the first time we've covered a decoy wine, by the way. Carmela, you may not remember, but a couple of years ago. Jog my memory. Yeah, jog. I wish I could jog. Okay, a couple of years ago for our American sparkling wine episodes that we've done around July 4th. We didn't do one this year, but we've traditionally done them. We did cover their Brute Cuvée, and we did rate it a seven out of ten.

Carmela: 02:36
Okay, so listen to that.

Joe: 02:37
That's a buy rating. So this is not a wine brand that we are biased against.

Carmela: 02:42
Never.

Joe: 02:43
And we're gonna drink one of their Cabernet Sauvignons and a Sauvignon Blanc. And those of you who know us know that those constitute a good cross section for us because we tend not to love Cabernet Sauignon, but we do love us some Sauvignon Blanc.

Carmela: 02:58
Yes, I was thinking the exact same thing, and you didn't even share this with me before.

Joe: 03:01
I know. Oh, there's Mabel. Mabel's like, why didn't you share it, buddy?

Carmela: 03:06
Right. No, no, she's agreeing with the whole thing.

Joe: 03:09
Exactly. Okay, but before we get there, we want to talk a little bit about Decoy wines and their parent company and their sister wines and their brother wines and give a little background on them so we know a bit more about what we are talking about and tasting later in the episode. Okay. Okay, so first it's worth clearing up who Decoy actually is, because Decoy is a part of the Duckhorn Wine Company, also known as the Duckhorn Portfolio, the same company that owns Duckhorn Vineyards, among many others. Now, interesting Carmela, Duckhorn Vineyards was founded by Dan and Margaret Duckhorn. Oh, I'm not kidding. That was their name. That started.

Carmela: 03:46
Oh, that's perfect. I know.

Joe: 03:48
Yeah, and they started it in Napa Valley in 1976. And the family built its reputation on making high-end Napa wines, particularly Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon. Oh wow. And then in 1985, they started the decoy label, and the intent was to make something more accessible and less expensive.

Carmela: 04:08
Okay, what do they mean by decoy? Is it like a duck decoy?

Joe: 04:11
Yeah, like duck horn. They have a duck on their label. So it's like a decoy kind of deal. It's like a it's like a fake duck.

Carmela: 04:16
Right. That's what I'm oh, but that's kind of interesting. I just want to know more about this name.

Joe: 04:21
Well, I don't know if we're gonna get into the name, but I've can I talk a little bit more about the wines and their their company? Sure. Okay, the duck horn vineyards wines themselves can be like $60 to $100 or more.

Carmela: 04:33
These aren't bargains.

Joe: 04:34
No, but Decoy is the reasonably priced alternative. $15, $20. I don't, they're wooden, I guess. I don't know. The regular decoy wines use fruit from vineyards across California and again are made to be approachable and ready to drink when you buy them. Wow. You know, right off the shelf. Yeah, Duckhorn, the higher price label, focuses heavily on Napa Valley fruit from its own estate vineyards as well as grapes from longtime grower partners. In fact, Duckhorn owns 298 acres of estate vineyards across five Napa Valley subappellations.

Carmela: 05:09
Oh my goodness. So they're not a joke. No, they're covering a lot of ground.

Joe: 05:12
Yeah, and you know, Napa Vineyards ain't cheap.

Carmela: 05:14
No. I don't know if you know that. I mean, I do now. Now you do. Okay, anything I would think in California is just not cheap.

Joe: 05:21
Totally. Totally agree. Now, beyond Decoy and Duckhorn Vineyards, Duckhorn Wine Company has built a pretty broad portfolio. There are 11 wine brands in all, including these nine in addition to Duckhorn Vineyards and Decoy. There's Paradox, it's in Napa Valley. It's focused on higher end Napa Valley Reds.

Carmela: 05:39
Paradux. Paradox, yes. Oh god, these names are cracking me up.

Joe: 05:43
Glad you caught that. They have higher-end Napa Valley Red and White blends, generally in the $50 to $100 range. So higher end. They have Goldeneye, Kalera, Migration, and Costa Brown vineyards. They're focused largely on cooler climate, Pinot Noir, and Chardonnay. And the labels span Anderson Valley, Central Coast, Mount Harlan, and Sonoma. And their wines have a really these, I mean, I put together a few different uh labels here, but they're anywhere from $30 to well over $200 per bottle. So this is real stuff. They also own Sonoma Cutre, which is sourced from Russian River Valley in Sonoma County, mostly focused on Chardonnay and Pinot Noir, Canvasback, sourced from Red Mountain and Walla Walla Valley in Washington State. Yeah, and they're focused on Cabernet Sauvignon and other Bordeaux varieties, and they're generally in the $30 to $40 range. And then they have Green Wing and Postmark, and these they source their grapes from Washington State and Napa Valley, and they're more value-based labels. They they're generally in the $15, $20, a little similar to Decoy. And I found this really interesting, but most of the brands that we just talked about were actually created by Duckhorn Wine.

Speaker 2: 06:52
Oh.

Joe: 06:53
They only acquired three of them: Kalera, Costa Brown, and Sonoma Cuturer. I think I'm saying that right. Which is surprising because most brands they do a lot of growth through through acquisition. But these guys are really trying to control, like, hey, we want, we have a goal for what we're trying to do. And we're trying to expand our company.

Carmela: 07:11
Calculated.

Joe: 07:12
Exactly, very calculated way. Now, in a few minutes, we'll go into more depth on decoy itself, but I think it's fair to say that Duckhorn Wine Company overall is focused on higher-end wines and some pretty serious wine regions. And in fact, Decoy Green Wing and Postmark are among their more affordable brands, but even those generally fall into what the wine industry would call the premium tier, which starts around $15. So I think we can expect that Decoy wines and the wines in the portfolio are meant to be pretty good. Love it. And Decoy is actually the biggest label in the entire portfolio. Altogether, the Duckhorn Portfolio sells about 2.7 million cases of wine each year in the US. It puts it at roughly the 12th largest wine supplier in the country by volume. And in late 2024, the Duckhorn Portfolio was acquired by private equity firm Butterfly Equity for $1.95 billion. Holy cow. With a B. Holy duck. Holy quack. Exactly. So the overwhelming majority of their business. The duck. What the duck is going on, man?

Carmela: 08:21
That's duck animation. We gotta think of something. I mean, we gotta do something with that word.

Joe: 08:28
I like it. I like that you played around with duck and didn't say hey. Oh no, I'll bleep that out. It's totally fine. Now they do sell most of their wine in the United States, but they're also distributed internationally, including places like Canada and England and France and Germany and Italy and Denmark and Sweden and Switzerland and Mexico and Colombia and Costa Rica and even more countries than that. Duckhorn wines also have a pretty good reputation, especially at their higher-end labels. In fact, two different wineries in the Duckhorn portfolio have won Wine Spectators Wine of the Year. Two of them. Yeah, the 2009 Costa Brown Sonoma Cos Pinot Noir was named Wine Spectator's number one wine of 2011. And the 2014 Duck Corn Vineyards Three Palms Vineyard Merlot was named Wine Spectre's number one wine of 2017. Wow. And so Duckhorn says this makes it the only wine company in the 21st century to have more than one winery brand in its portfolio win Wine Spectators Wine of the Year. Amazing. That's pretty good. And a lot of their wines have gotten high ratings in the 90s, and even Decoy Wine has gotten ratings in the 90s.

Carmela: 09:33
From James Suckling.

Joe: 09:34
Well, maybe. Maybe so, maybe not. No comment. But if a 90. Yeah, if you know us, yeah, if you know us, you know that James Suckling always gives a 90. And if he doesn't give a 90, we're just like, uh Well, we're also wondering how much extra they paid him for that rating.

Carmela: 09:49
Or like, was he just like really tuned in that day? Maybe. You know, like maybe. I or did he actually drink the wine that day?

Joe: 09:55
No, I I think they just paid him more.

Carmela: 09:57
Oh. Yeah, exactly.

Joe: 09:59
Okay, so look, this is a serious wine company, Carmela.

Carmela: 10:02
They're making a decoy wine company to me.

Joe: 10:04
Even though they're trying to fool you.

Carmela: 10:06
Right.

Joe: 10:06
They're serious. They make some well-regarded wine, so we have some relatively high expectations for this tasting. Those of you out there in listening land, we're expecting good stuff. On that note, we have two decoy wines. One, again, a Cabernet Sauvignon, and the other a Sauvignon Blanc to taste and review so we can let you know what we think about them. And then you can decide if you think they're worth going out and buying.

Carmela: 10:29
But first, you gotta do our shameless plug.

Joe: 10:32
That's right. So thank you for listening to us and supporting our show. Remember, we buy all the wine we taste and review every week so that we can give you real and honest reviews. And if you like what you're hearing, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a five-star rating review so we can grow listeners. And we thank you all who do that. We also love to hear from you, and we always respond so you can follow us on Instagram at Blue Sky and TikTok at the WinePair Podcast. You can contact us on our website, thewinepairpodcast.com. You can sign up for our email newsletter there, which should be coming out, will be coming out on the first of October. I know that because I write it. And you can also say I do, I write it. Did you know that?

Carmela: 11:07
Chat GPT.

Joe: 11:08
No.

Carmela: 11:08
You didn't you don't collaborate with that him?

Joe: 11:10
No, I may I may ask for some fact checking. Sometimes I ask for fact checking. Can you check these facts?

Carmela: 11:15
I I knew you wouldn't just allow it to just write it for you. No, I find I would find that ridiculous. That's right.

Joe: 11:22
That would I would that would make me upset. But you can also send us a note, real written note. You don't have to use Chat GPT. You can just write to us. Yeah, at Joe at the WineParPodcast.com and let us know wines you want us to review or just shoot the brief. Tell us how you feel about AI. Do you like AI or are you afraid of AI? Do you think it's gonna take over the world?

Carmela: 11:40
Oh my, that's opening a big can of worms. Well, you know what?

Joe: 11:43
Open up the can of worms. Let us know. We want to chat with you about it.

Carmela: 11:46
Okay, I mean, what the bee?

Joe: 11:47
You're right. Are we what the duck are we gonna do?

Carmela: 11:50
Ducks.

Joe: 11:50
Okay. And as we do every week, we'll tell you someone we think you should recommend the White Bear podcast to, because the best way for us to grow listeners is when you tell your family and friends about us. And this week we want you to recommend us to anyone who has an opinion about decoy wines.

Carmela: 12:04
Or AI.

Joe: 12:05
Or AI. Right. Because we think they may have something to say, good, bad, affirmative, or negative, about this episode.

Carmela: 12:12
Okay.

Joe: 12:12
All right. Carmella, let's find out just what the duck, this decoy brand is all about, shall we?

Carmela: 12:18
Yes, let's ducking do it.

Joe: 12:20
Let's do it. For duck's sake. As we mentioned, Decoy is by far the biggest individual label within the Duckhorn portfolio. And as we also mentioned earlier, the Duckhorn co-founders named Duckhorn started Decoy in 1985 as a companion label to Duckhorn Vineyards. In fact, they positioned the wine as the gateway duck. Oh I don't I don't wait.

Carmela: 12:43
Are you serious?

Joe: 12:44
Yes. And again, Decoy was the Decoy is the gateway duck. Yeah, I guess so. At two ducks, I guess. And Decoy, again, was designed to create high-quality wines at accessible price points. Decoy initially operated at a Duckhorn's Napa Valley winemaking facility and focused on a single Napa Valley red blend sourced from various vineyards. In 2007, they updated their label. In 2008, Decoy transitioned from the single red blend into a full standalone brand, releasing single varietal red wines like Cabernet Sauignon, Merlot, Zimfandel, and Pinot Noir. And then in 2009, they added Sauvignon Blanc and Chardonnay into the lineup. Just to cover both sides. I mean, you gotta. Exactly. Then in 2012, they started sourcing their wines from a couple of vineyards they acquired in Sonoma County. So Duckhorn, mostly Napa, but Decoy, they have some vineyards in Sonoma. First, they bought Ridgeline Vineyards, and then they bought Brownell Vineyard. And then in 2014, they purchased their own production facility in Mendocino, which allowed their lead winemaker Dana Epperson and her team to oversee up to 150 individual fermentations each year. Wow. And we're gonna talk a little bit more about she's busy. So we're gonna talk a little bit more about Dana in a minute or two. Okay. But a little bit more about the history. In 2020, they expanded their portfolio a bit. They introduced a higher-end wine called Decoy Limited. Ah. And in 2021, they introduced Decoy Premium Seltzers. And then in 2024, they launched their lower alcohol and lower calorie wine called Decoy Featherweight.

Carmela: 14:20
Okay, so that could be a decoy.

Joe: 14:22
That is a decoy.

Carmela: 14:23
That's a decoy.

Joe: 14:24
But they called it featherweight. That's kind of clever.

Carmela: 14:26
I love it all.

Joe: 14:27
Even though decoys probably don't have feathers, but it's fine. Well, they can.

Carmela: 14:31
Why can't they?

Joe: 14:31
They just she did call it hollow. Oh boy, that's too much. It looks like the seltzers may no longer be in production. Like that might have been something where they were like, we're just gonna try it. Oh, and maybe it didn't work. Okay. And the featherweight expansion is still pretty young but growing. But the limited has done well, like gotten some good reviews.

Carmela: 14:51
A limited decoy.

Joe: 14:53
Limited decoy. There's only so many of them. Right. In 2024, the decoy label sold 1.5 million cases, and Decoy Limited added another 190,000 cases. And together they account for approximately 62% of the Duckhorn portfolio's total annual case volume. And among wines at their higher price level, because remember, they're considered premium. Right. So at that premium tier, they are one of the biggest market watch puts decoy at more than $400 million in U.S. retail sales and says it's the sixth largest table wine brand in the country among wines priced $10 and above. So that's why we're doing this. You know, people who listen to this podcast, some of them are like, hey, I like my decoy.

Carmela: 15:40
Well, right. Right? I like my fake wine. Okay.

Joe: 15:44
You can't cop. That's a yucking somebody's yuck.

Carmela: 15:46
No, but I'm not.

Joe: 15:47
You are just joking. You are just joshing.

Carmela: 15:49
Oh my goodness.

Joe: 15:50
She feels terrible. You should see her face.

Carmela: 15:52
I know what has come over me with this wine.

Joe: 15:54
She's okay. I do want to take a minute to talk about Dana Epperson, their head winemaker. She studied food science at Cal Poly. Wow. Yeah, that's where our daughter went, Cal Poly, including advanced work in wine analysis and viticulture. And later she worked at Artiza Vineyards under Mark Berenger. And Mark spent about 15 years at Duckhorn and had risen to become its vice president and director of winemaking. So she had a little connection there. Epperson has said that Beringer taught her to use a light touch and focus on making classic, balanced wines. So she tries to bring that philosophy to decoy even today. Cool. Yeah. Even though decoy is made on a large scale, she and her team still work, as I said, with as many as 150 separate fermentations in a vintage, and they use hand sorting, open top punch downs, which sometimes I'd like to do to people, Lee's stirring. And remember, Lee's is the stuff that's left over in the fermentation process, adds some like body to some wines, and careful oak selection. So her job is really about trying to keep a hands-on small lot approach while making wine at a scale where millions of bottles are sold. That's a lot of work. Yeah. And decoy is not good for her. Agree. Decoy is not organic or biodynamic, but Epperson does follow sustainable vineyard practices across many of her vineyards. And her approach to oak is also something I was very curious about because I tend to think that California wineries can be a little bit heavy-handed on the oak. Right. Decoy uses French oak. So, as we've said many times, French oak is a lighter oak than like American oak in a range of sizes. And remember, the bigger the oak barrel, the less kind of oak flavor it's going to impart. Right. It's really about getting oxygen into the wine. And Epperson does not seem interested in making oak the dominant flavor. She wants it to build texture and structure and maybe some spice or some toastiness while keeping the fruit front and center.

Speaker 2: 17:53
Okay. So I like that.

Joe: 17:54
So while her style is not really natural wine or low intervention, she is trying to make balanced wines. So on that note, Carmilla, I think it's time to learn a little bit more about the specific wines we're drinking today and get into our tasting and review so we can really see what we think. And if we think they're balanced.

Carmela: 18:12
Yeah, we're looking for a balanced wine now. That's right.

Joe: 18:15
For sure. Okay. Uh and you may be able to hear Mabel. We're using enrichment again.

unknown: 18:19
Yes.

Joe: 18:20
And we'll talk about that a little bit more.

Carmela: 18:21
She eats enrichment every day.

Joe: 18:23
Yes, but what we found is hiding treats under things like bowls and cups is very entertaining for her.

Carmela: 18:28
It keeps her occupied for a while.

Joe: 18:29
For three or four minutes out of time. Okay. As usual, the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $25 and they should be pretty darn easy to find. You should be able to find decoy wine at any grocery store or wine shop. Heck, you might even be able to find them at a 7-Eleven or a gas station.

Speaker 2: 18:47
Wow.

Joe: 18:47
Now, your specialty local wine shop may not carry them. They may carry like duck horn, but maybe not decoy. Right. So that should just be something to expect. But I bet if you ask nicely, they'll probably find them for you or point you to the right store to go to to find them. Okay, the first wine we're gonna drink is the 2023 Decoy California Cabernet Sauvignon. And this wine got a 91 rating from wine enthusiasts. Oh wow. And a 7.3 from the reverse wine snob, which is a buy rating for them. They like the taste, but the price is actually a little high for them. I'll also note that this wine is technically 76% Cabernet Sauvignon and 24% Merlot.

Speaker 1: 19:27
Oh wow.

Joe: 19:28
So as a reminder, US labeling laws allow a wine to be called a single varietal if a single grape makes up 75% of the wine or more. But in a lot of other countries, the threshold is 85%. So this would have to be treated like a Cabernet Merlot blend rather than simply a Cabernet Sauvignon in other countries. My point is, while they can legally call it Cabernet Sauvign here in the US, to me, it's a blend.

Carmela: 19:56
Okay. I don't, I mean why? I mean, you're just gonna go by the European standards.

Joe: 20:00
Well, plus, I mean, a quarter of it is not the varietal they say it is. Well, and seems like a lot of blend. Okay, let me ask you a question. You're making a cake. You're making a cake for your you know, you know Carmela rents her own home bakery. Okay, you're making a cake and you say it's gonna be a chocolate cake.

Carmela: 20:15
But then you put pumpkin in it.

Joe: 20:16
But 25% of it is pumpkin. Got it. Do you call it a chocolate cake? Do you say, no, this is a chocolate cake?

Carmela: 20:22
I understand why we're doing that here.

Joe: 20:24
I don't know why either. I bet it's just something that big California wine producers were like, we just want to put a bunch of grapes together, just leave us alone.

Speaker 2: 20:32
Right.

Joe: 20:32
You know, a little blending, a little blending is okay, but a quarter of it seems like a lot.

Speaker 2: 20:36
Do you think it's a fake?

Joe: 20:37
It's a it's a decoy. Ironically, I do think that I will actually like this wine maybe a little bit better because it has a little Merlot in it, but we're gonna find out. I was able to find a tech sheet for this wine, but it was a little thin. The grapes were sourced from Sonoma County, Central Coast, and Medicino County, so all over the place. Doesn't indicate what grapes came from where, like, did the Cabernet come from somewhere and the Merlot? It didn't say. They also say they aged in 40% new French oak and 60% neutral, which means used French oak, for 18 months. So it's oaked, but it's French oak, and 60% of the oak is neutral, so I'm expecting it not to be overly oaky. But I couldn't find much else out about the wine, so let's move on to the next one, which is the 2025 Decoy Sauvignon Blanc. And this one got an 88 from Wine Spectator. Okay. So that's not bad. Now, this wine, Carmela, is 100% Sauvignon Blanc. It's not a faker.

Speaker 3: 21:33
Woo!

Joe: 21:34
Again, the tech sheet wasn't super valuable, but we did learn that the grapes came from a whole mess of places, like the counties of Sonoma, Mendocino, Lake, Santa Barbara, San Joaquin, and San Benito.

Carmela: 21:45
So while it's they were just traveling all over to collect grapes.

Joe: 21:49
Yeah, while it's a hundred percent Sauvignon Blanc, it's from all over the place.

Carmela: 21:53
You know, I mean I mean, what I don't even understand that.

Joe: 21:56
I don't I don't well that probably has something to do with money.

Carmela: 21:59
Traveling around. Well, they were making a whole lot of it.

Joe: 22:02
That too. They also say the wine was aged for six months.

Carmela: 22:05
Money motivates.

Joe: 22:06
Money does motivate. Six months in stainless steel, so no oak, as you would expect from a Sauvignon Blanc, should be pretty crisp, although it is high in alcohol. It's 13.9%. Oh. Now that's pretty darn high for and a Sauvignon Blanc.

Speaker 3: 22:20
Right.

Joe: 22:20
So I think that will tamp down on the acidity a bit, but we'll see. And remember, what often happens in California and other warmer climate areas is because the grapes get more ripe, which means more sugar and less acidity, that also means more alcohol. So that's why you can expect our day. Yeah.

Carmela: 22:38
So if you want to get drunk, then this might be your decoy wine of your dreams.

Joe: 22:43
Well, I'm just saying, look for California wines if you want to get drunk. Okay. I think that's enough information. I think we need to start to get drinking Carmela.

Carmela: 22:51
Okay.

Joe: 22:51
So if you have decoy wines, especially a decoy Cabernet Seminon or Semignon Blanc. Any decoy wine is fine. Any wine. If you have any wine with a duck on it, if you have a duck, you can drink the duck.

Carmela: 23:03
Wait, that's whole duck. I wonder how many people have pet ducks.

Joe: 23:07
If you have a pet duck, will you please let us know? And if your pet duck is AI, we don't want to know about it.

Carmela: 23:12
We had a pet. No, I never had a pet. No, not I didn't.

Joe: 23:15
You killed your ducks.

Carmela: 23:16
No. It was dying. It was dying. We tried to save it. Okay. It was a little duckling.

Joe: 23:21
That's that's the story they like to tell. Okay. Well, we're gonna take a break and we'll be right back. Okay, we're back and we're ready to try our first wine. I thought we'd start out with the Cabernet Sauvignon, Carmela.

Carmela: 23:36
Let's do it.

Joe: 23:36
Then we can finish up with the Sauvignon Blanc.

Carmela: 23:38
Okay.

Joe: 23:39
Okay, this wine comes from California and the USA. It's a 2023 vintage. It was $19.97 at wine.com. It's 14.1% alcohol. Again, 76% Cabernet Sauvignon and 20% 24% Merlot. And again, wine enthusiasts gave it a 91. Let's talk about the bottle first, maybe a little bit. Like sure. What do you think about the do you see the little label there?

Carmela: 24:04
I like it.

Joe: 24:05
I mean, you know, a lot of people do shop for wine by label. What would you do if you saw this wine? What would you think?

Carmela: 24:11
Oh, I don't know. I mean, it's just it's pretty simple, but I I like the fact that, you know, it says decoy, and then there's a decoy duck on the front of it. Yeah. Yeah, and I I like the simpleness of it actually.

Joe: 24:22
Would the would the label attract you?

Carmela: 24:24
I don't think in particular.

Joe: 24:26
It wouldn't detract you.

Carmela: 24:27
No.

Joe: 24:28
It's just neutral.

Carmela: 24:29
I feel pretty neutral about it. It's nice. It's simple. All right, good.

Joe: 24:33
Let's talk about the color of this wine.

Carmela: 24:34
It's dark.

Joe: 24:35
It's dark. It's dark purple. I mean, maybe a little bit of red, but it's pretty, pretty purple.

Carmela: 24:39
It's pretty dark and not very see-through at all.

Joe: 24:42
No. It's a little shimmery. It's nice. It's kind of pretty, but it's dark. It's a dark.

Carmela: 24:46
It's purple. Yeah.

Joe: 24:47
Okay, well, let's smell it and see what we think.

Carmela: 24:49
Well, I'm getting cherry.

Joe: 24:51
I think it smells a little hot to me.

Carmela: 24:53
Yeah, I for sure. I'm also getting some something like a like a some sort of spice, like a spicy spice. Not like cayenne, but like, oh, I can't really put my finger on it. Something like I'm with you. You know, I don't know if it's clove. Cinnamon. Yeah, maybe. I'm thinking like a cinnamon bear.

Joe: 25:10
I think I got a little cinnamon bear going on.

Carmela: 25:12
Oh, that might be it. It almost like you feel like you're gonna drink it and you might actually your mouth might be a little inflamed. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You don't have those, yeah. The cinnamon bear, I like that. Yeah. But I am getting some cherry, um, even like a cherry like licorice. Yeah. It's kind of candied.

Joe: 25:28
Kind of candied. I feel like I'm getting like, yeah, I guess that's right, but I feel like I'm getting maybe more like, I want to say like blackcurrant or something like that.

Speaker 2: 25:37
Okay, okay.

Joe: 25:38
I mean, it's it's kind of alcohol-y. It too it smells to me like a Cabernet Seminole.

Carmela: 25:43
Like it's gonna be kind of big.

Joe: 25:45
I feel like maybe there's a little smoke on it. There's something maybe a little like pencilette-y kind of on it, maybe a little bit too. I don't know, kind of like uh a little leather. Maybe there's a little leather, I think so.

Carmela: 25:56
Yeah.

Joe: 25:56
There's some, it's just like it's fruity, but almost like more of the secondary smells are coming through to me. You know what I'm getting? A little a little flower, some like a strong flower. Not quite a rose, but like strong flour, like a strong potpourri or something like that.

Carmela: 26:11
Okay, yeah. Like a grandma type, like you're a little bit.

Joe: 26:14
It's just like a really fragrant flower. I don't know what I'm talking about.

Carmela: 26:18
I don't know.

Joe: 26:18
Okay, well, let's taste it and see what we think. Okay.

Carmela: 26:24
Well, it's not as like punch you in the face as I thought it was gonna be at all.

Joe: 26:27
No, I am getting a little cinnamon on the front. A little bit of like big big red. Big red gum.

Carmela: 26:32
Oh, a big big red gum is good.

Joe: 26:35
But it's it does have cherry, like and some tartness. It has some acidity.

Carmela: 26:40
It really does.

Joe: 26:41
Which is nice. Like a lot of times on these California cabs, sometimes you don't get a lot of acidity. It's pretty tight tannins, like pretty like sticky, grippy tannins on it.

Carmela: 26:51
Yes, I would agree. Yeah, I'm not no, I just don't think it's overly fruity like I was expecting, and maybe it is the alcohol that I'm kind of getting more of on this. I'm not, I'm not getting it's not like overly flavorful.

Joe: 27:03
No, I agree.

Carmela: 27:04
I'm not like, oh, this, I can't really put my finger on it, really.

Joe: 27:07
I think it's got a decent mouthfeel, but to me, it's like kind of what I don't love about California cabs. It's just it feels a little bit extra, a little bit astringent, a little bit like it's trying hard. Like I know a lot of people love that. So if you love that kind of flavor and approach, it's fine. But to me, it lacks subtlety. It just is like it feels aggressive. The flavoring feels aggressive to me.

Carmela: 27:31
Right.

Joe: 27:32
Like they just tried to pour too much flavor into it. I don't, I don't know.

Carmela: 27:35
But I'm not, I actually, I mean, I'm kind of with you, but I'm also like it feels a little no, it's like a little flat though.

Joe: 27:41
Oh, okay.

Carmela: 27:42
I'm not getting it. It's not, I mean, it's a little bit tart. It's almost more like like a pomegranate or um, you know, I feel like it's a little under-ripe fruit.

Joe: 27:52
Yeah, it's very like tart in the front. Yeah, I think.

Carmela: 27:55
So it's almost got a little bit of like a sour end to it.

Joe: 27:59
You know, it's funny. I'm kind of feeling that now. Like as it sits in the mouth, it kind of like has some of these smoky flavors, but you're right.

Carmela: 28:06
Like a little raspberry even, just like a you know, I don't know, something kind of underripe. Um, something else I'm getting.

Joe: 28:13
Which is a little surprising.

Carmela: 28:15
Yeah. Wow, there you go. It's our ferocious Mabel. Jeez, she's actually frustrated with the light.

Joe: 28:25
She she must be.

Carmela: 28:26
She's never looked up at the light and nuts.

Joe: 28:30
Okay. What food would you eat with this wine?

Carmela: 28:33
Um, I think you could do, I mean, like for some reason I'm thinking like a putinesca would be really good.

Joe: 28:38
You're thinking spicy. You got spicy on your mouth.

Carmela: 28:40
Yeah, because there's that acidity or tartness on it that you don't normally get in a in a cabernet, I don't think.

Joe: 28:46
Okay.

Carmela: 28:47
So I could do for some reason, like a yeah, like a bolnese or a um putinesca, something spicy and briny with the olives cake. Olives, yeah.

Joe: 28:56
Yeah, yeah. I was thinking kind of like fajitas.

Carmela: 28:59
Oh, steak falls.

Joe: 29:01
Yeah, yeah, and steak and hot, like something like that. I think, yeah, or like a heavily um marinated meat, like uh, you know, teriyaki flank steak or something like that. That's that's what I'm thinking with this.

Carmela: 29:14
Oh, that would be nice.

Joe: 29:15
Because I think it needs a little bit of something big to kind of like to cut through with the acidity and that. So I don't know. Anything else?

Carmela: 29:22
Uh no, I like those ideas though. I think we're kind of on thinking the same thing.

Joe: 29:26
On the same page.

Carmela: 29:27
Right.

Joe: 29:27
I like it. Okay, let's rate this wine. And our uh as a reminder on our rating scale, we rate on a scale of one to ten, we don't give half points. Seven and above means we'd buy it. Four and below means that we'd pour it down the sink. Five or a six means we're gonna drink it and finish it, and thanks for serving it, but we're not gonna buy it. So, Carla, what rating are you gonna give this decoy 2023 decoy Cabernet Signal?

Carmela: 29:48
I'm gonna give it a six.

Joe: 29:50
Oh, okay. See, I feel like you're giving you being pretty generous with it. I I'm really torn. I'm not gonna give it a seven. I would not buy it. Now, that is not to say that if you like it and this is your kind of wine, like peace. Buy it.

Speaker 2: 30:04
Of course.

Joe: 30:05
We don't, I have no qualms about that. I know there's a lot of people that you know that don't have the same kind of tastes as as ours.

Carmela: 30:12
Right.

Joe: 30:12
But for me, it's more like I would be happy to drink it. Happy to drink it.

Carmela: 30:16
No, if somebody served this to me or if I ordered it, I wouldn't be like disappointed.

Joe: 30:21
No, not at all. Not at all. So, you know what? On that, I think you've convinced me. I I'm gonna go with the six as well. I would definitely drink it. I'd go back for more. I would too. I just wouldn't buy it for myself.

Carmela: 30:31
Especially well, the thing is this I have to say, if you're a cab lover, though, and I don't know how you said this before, but I'm not sure you're gonna love this.

Joe: 30:39
Really?

Carmela: 30:39
I don't know. I just don't know. I'm feeling like I'm liking it more than most cabs.

Joe: 30:45
Well, you like the acidity on it.

Carmela: 30:47
Yeah, so I mean, I just I don't know if people would go, wow, this one is a really good, but price point is really solid.

Joe: 30:56
It's solid. And you know what?

Carmela: 30:57
It's you served it at a nice barbecue or dinner party because I was gonna say, yeah, any kind of party, like especially for like a large party.

Joe: 31:03
It'd be a nice wine for a big thing.

Carmela: 31:05
It'd be a great and it would be such a great buy.

Joe: 31:07
Totally. Okay, well, let's take a break and we're gonna try our second wine. Okay. Okay, we're back and we're ready to try our next wine. This is the decoy Sauvignon Blanc. It's from California in the USA, the 2025 vintage, so real new. $16.97. Holy moly. Yeah, not too bad at wine.com. 13.9% alcohol. Again, very high. 100% Sauvignon Blanc. Wine Spectator gave it an 88. It is a screw cap. Whoa! We love a screw cap. We do. We are not snobby about screw caps. We love a screw cap a ducking screw cap.

Carmela: 31:44
Oh my! And the other thing is it fits really well in your fridge.

Joe: 31:48
It I love it. I agree, because then you don't have that cork popping open thing or sticking out.

Carmela: 31:54
If you lay it on its side in your fridge, perfect, it's not gonna drip. It's so much I hate a dripping wine.

Joe: 32:00
I hate it too. Carmela, what did you say about the bottle?

Carmela: 32:03
The bottle is the same label.

Joe: 32:05
Same label. Yep. If you didn't look at the name, you might not know. Well, you could tell from the color.

Carmela: 32:09
Right, but I kind of like that too. It's like if you're looking for something, they make it very easy for you to find.

Joe: 32:14
You know, you know what you're gonna get. Right. All right, let's talk about the color of this.

Carmela: 32:20
It's light.

Joe: 32:21
It's very light.

Carmela: 32:22
It's kind of vanilla-like.

Joe: 32:23
Yeah, it's very light. It's creamy, it's creamy looking. Yeah, I like it. Almost yeah, it's pretty.

Carmela: 32:28
It looks fresh, like a, you know, like actually, it looks like a summer sipper type of line.

Joe: 32:32
Summer sipper.

Carmela: 32:33
But ducks, I don't know. I mean, I kind of feel like they could. This could sit on a Thanksgiving table too. Okay. I know it's not, it's not a turkey. I don't even know why.

Joe: 32:42
There's something about the label. I think it's cute, but it kind of looks I'm gonna just say this and then I'm gonna step away. Oh it looks a little cheap to me, but it's fine. We're gonna keep going.

Carmela: 32:52
It's simple.

Joe: 32:52
It's simple. Simple, nothing wrong with that. I do.

Carmela: 32:57
Okay.

Joe: 32:57
Okay. Uh, what do you think about let's smell it? I don't know what I'm talking about anymore.

Carmela: 33:02
What do you think about the label? Let's get back to the label.

Joe: 33:04
Ooh.

Carmela: 33:04
Can we get back to the ducking label?

Joe: 33:06
Let's go back to the no, let's talk about I'm getting some really nice tropical fruit on this.

Carmela: 33:11
I am too.

Joe: 33:12
Like pog. You know, we always talk about pog, a little orange, a little guava, a little papaya.

Carmela: 33:17
I love it. It's kind of banana too.

Joe: 33:19
Yeah, it's got a really nice tropical fruit smell.

Carmela: 33:22
Did you get the banana on it? Get a little creaminess on it.

Joe: 33:25
Well, I was saying it was creamy. Maybe this is on the leaves. I don't know. They didn't I couldn't tell from the tech sheet because it wouldn't say a duck and thing on it.

Carmela: 33:32
What the duck? Duck. We're just gonna just do that one over and over again.

Joe: 33:36
Yeah, it's gonna get funnier too, people, so just be ready for it.

Carmela: 33:39
Like enough. The joke's over.

Joe: 33:40
In the next five minutes, you're gonna be laughing hilariously when we say ducking.

Carmela: 33:44
No, you're just but what it's gonna do, it's gonna make you want to say it. You're gonna be somewhere right after this, and you're gonna be like, what the duck? Just like let it rip.

Joe: 33:53
Okay, do you remember this when you used to try to spell f in on like an Apple message, it would change to ducking. Do you remember that? Oh, I remember it just drive me crazy. Anyway, okay.

Carmela: 34:03
Why would you write Fing down?

Joe: 34:06
This is a very such a Carmella question. She's the only person in the world that would never use the F word in any situation.

Carmela: 34:15
No, but ducking I would.

Joe: 34:16
Yeah, you would. Okay, I'm also getting a little apple, like a little orchard fruit in it.

Carmela: 34:21
Give me a second here. You're going so fast.

Joe: 34:24
Like a little apple, and maybe just a scoosh of like it's it's it's more tropical fruit, but maybe there's a little tiny bit of lemon on it.

Carmela: 34:32
Okay, but I'm actually getting kind of like a really ripe pear. Okay. I'm getting this creaminess more than like I'm getting the tropical fruit for sure. But there's something kind of like almost smells a little bit like a Chardonnay to me.

Joe: 34:45
Oh, whoa. I don't know why. But it doesn't smell like I get it smelled like I the closest would be a Chablis. Not a Chardonnay because Chardonnay would be so oaky, but yeah.

Carmela: 34:54
Right.

Joe: 34:54
A Chablis. Okay.

Carmela: 34:55
That's what I think.

Joe: 34:56
I don't know why. I don't know why either, but let's taste it and find out if that creaminess comes through, babe. Okay. It's creamy. It's kind of got a little banana in it. It's good. It's pretty good, although it's a little sharp. It's pretty sharp. Like I'm finding there's something on it that's like this super steely tartness that I'm not sure I love that much.

Carmela: 35:19
I think it tastes like a hard alcohol.

Joe: 35:21
I agree with you. Tastes like a lemon drop.

Carmela: 35:23
Yeah.

Joe: 35:24
Tastes like something kind of cocktail vodka-y like about it. There is. There's a little hard alcohol taste to it.

Carmela: 35:29
Yeah, because it is high in alcohol, you said.

Joe: 35:31
Yeah.

Carmela: 35:32
It is.

Joe: 35:32
No, you're totally right. And I think that's coming through.

Carmela: 35:34
I think that's kind of cocktail, but not like a uh, you know, like a daiquiri or anything like super heavy. It's kind of like you said, a lemon drop. But it is creamy. It's got a little bit of like frothiness to it.

Joe: 35:48
Yeah, it I agree. There is a creaminess to it. I bet they put it on the leaves. That wouldn't surprise me a bit. It does have like it, it kind of like the tropical fruit has gone a gone away a little bit for me, and it's more like lemon. It's more lemony.

Carmela: 36:00
I actually like a lot.

Joe: 36:01
I do too.

Carmela: 36:02
I like this, I like this bottle. You're not crazy for it.

Joe: 36:05
I I just am finding it a little bit too instead of crisp, it's like steely. And I just want it to be a little bit crunchier. It doesn't taste like crunchy to me.

Carmela: 36:15
Yeah, you know, now I just had a second sip and it's it is a little bit aggressive or harsh.

Joe: 36:19
Yeah. And I agree with you. I think it's the alcohol. I think it's super high alcohol.

Carmela: 36:22
Yeah, yeah. I mean it's good, but yeah, I think a little bit of that, that's why it is kind of like a hard alcohol drink, like a well drink or something. It's got a little bit of like, I think it is kind of vodka.

Joe: 36:34
Yeah, I'm I'm with you. Okay, well, let's talk about the food that we would eat with this Sévignon bronque.

Carmela: 36:40
I want fish and chips with this.

Joe: 36:41
Do you I want I want spicy food? I want like General So's chicken, or I want like Chao Main, chicken chow mein or something, something kind of maybe even a little bit. What's I don't know, like a kung pao. Like what are the like a spicy one? Or like, okay, you know, we go to Din Tai Feng and they have the spicy dumplings.

Carmela: 37:00
How do we feel that they got rid of the rice cakes?

Joe: 37:02
Ooh, well, our daughter is so not speaking of Cal Poly, our daughter is so not happy about them getting rid of those little rice things.

Carmela: 37:09
Oh, they're so good, and they I they just ruined it for us.

Joe: 37:12
They ruined it.

Carmela: 37:12
I don't even want to go anymore. But rice cakes would be really good with this.

Joe: 37:16
Totally good. Really good.

Carmela: 37:17
Oh, and those, what do you wait, were you talking about the spicy wontons? That would be really, really, really, really good.

Joe: 37:24
I think you really gave a good oh.

Carmela: 37:26
Those are one of those are actually my second favorite thing, probably in the menu. But I also think that like for some reason I could have the fish and chips with like tartar sauce with this.

Joe: 37:36
I agree.

Carmela: 37:37
Thousand island dressing.

Joe: 37:38
I I appreciate that you said thousand island. She sometimes says thousand islands. And I'm sure some of you out there say that too, but it's technically not. No, it's not okay.

Carmela: 37:46
It's so not okay for Joe. It bugs him like crazy if you add S's to things.

Joe: 37:50
Oh man, Nordstrom's giving me a break.

Carmela: 37:53
I have to just do it. I just addresses to everything. I know you do. I'll say Joe's. It's a family thing. Okay, Joe.

Joe: 37:58
It's a family thing with her. Okay, any other foods that we'd have with this decoy Sauvignon Blanc?

Carmela: 38:03
Um, I think we shared a lot. I mean, I am for some reason sushi's coming to mind with like wasabi and soy sauce.

Joe: 38:09
I almost think though it's too like for uh just um sashimi, I think it's too much.

Carmela: 38:14
No, not sashi, but almost like a roll. Like with a spicy roll, like a spicy tuna roll.

Joe: 38:19
Spicy tuna roll would be great. We really get a little bit.

Carmela: 38:21
Something about having that creamy sauce. Yeah. That's why I'm like thinking of the thousand island singular.

Joe: 38:28
Thank you, thank you. Okay, well, let's rate this wine. Uh, what would you rate this decoy Sauvignon Blanc?

Carmela: 38:33
Well, I at first I was like, I really like this, and I do, but I this is my this is the hard thing. I don't know if I'm gonna get a Sauvignon Blanc, if I'm gonna get this bottle. That's what I think, too. Which is tough because I'm enjoying it. It's kind of different, but now I'm thinking, mm, but if you're gonna be a little bit more than a big one. Well, okay, what are you gonna give it? Your hem and hunt. Okay, I'll give it a six.

Joe: 38:53
I'm with you. I'm giving it a six as well, sister.

Carmela: 38:56
Oh god.

Joe: 38:57
Okay. Which of these wines are you finishing tonight?

Carmela: 39:00
Well, the Sauvignon Blanc for sure.

Joe: 39:01
Yeah, I think I am as well. Okay, what the let's talk about if we ducking nailed the tasting profiles from the Decoy Cabernet Sauignon and the Sauvignon Blanc. We're not gonna duck duck, duck off. Okay, we're gonna we're just gonna go right into the wines. The 2023 Decoy California Cabernet Sauvignon, the winery says dark cherry, raspberry, I think you said raspberry, baking spice, you're getting spices, cola, subtle, toasty oak. I don't know if it was subtle, focused or aromatic profile that feels both inviting and balanced. Dark, juicy, blackberry on the palate, silky tannins. I don't think they were silky, medium oak structure and bright acidity. It was bright acidity, for sure. Smooth, creamy texture. I'm not sure about that. Wine enthusiast says the core aromas are opulent black currant. Okay. Yes, you did. Boysenberry, sweet cigar, integrated French oak, and dried florals on the nose. On the nose. Flavors on the palette suggest baked plum, blackberry, candied orange, bittersweet chocolate, and grippy tannins on the finish.

Carmela: 40:03
Yeah. Okay.

Joe: 40:04
I definitely said grippy.

Carmela: 40:05
Yep.

Joe: 40:06
I I'm going go back. Listen to the tape. Right. It's not actually.

Carmela: 40:10
Well, you're going to be listening to it whenever, tomorrow when I edit it.

Joe: 40:13
That's right. Okay, the decoy Sauvignon Blanc. The winery says bright and vibrant. The Sauvignon Blanc opens with aromas of tropical fruit. Yep. Tangy citrus and a touch of vanilla spice. Okay. The pal well, you said a little bit like a Chardonnay. Yeah. So I think you were getting that. Yeah. Palette balances lively acidity with a creamy, rounded texture. You got creamy. Unfolding layers of juicy stone fruit and tropical flavors. Okay. The long finish is marked by a lingering note of kiwi. Whoa. And wine spectator said it's breezy notes of kiwi lime. You know what? That's good. I think it's got that lime. You know, sometimes lime is kind of like sharper as a citrus. So I think that's right. Golden kiwi fruit. Did you get any kiwi?

Carmela: 40:55
I love kiwi. But did you get any kiwi on it? You know, now that it's been mentioned, I think I can get behind that. It didn't come to mind, but um, yeah, I get behind that.

Joe: 41:05
I like this too, what they said. A lively, lively acidity, fresca tinged finish.

Carmela: 41:11
I kind of like that. Oh, okay.

Joe: 41:13
Fresca. How about a fresca?

Carmela: 41:15
On the airplane, you can get a fresca.

Joe: 41:18
You can get a fresca off the airplane.

Carmela: 41:20
I know, but that is where you get frescas, I feel like. Or for me, when I think of a fresca, it's not a plane.

Joe: 41:26
I think about ginger ale. There's only two times I have ginger ale on an airplane and when I'm sick. Those are the only two times. Right. And it's the only two times they actually taste good.

Carmela: 41:33
It's true.

Joe: 41:34
Okay, Carmela, what's our verdict on decoy ones?

Carmela: 41:37
Well, I actually feel like they're we're not unenthusiastic about it.

Joe: 41:41
Safe play for sure.

Carmela: 41:42
Yeah. And I think especially for like um like a large group, they're such a buy totally that I don't think you can go wrong. But I just think, yeah, that it's a hard one for us because we're not super fond of the big cabinet.

Joe: 41:56
The style. And this California style of even Cabernet Sauvignon when they're a little bit higher alcohol.

Carmela: 42:01
Yeah, yeah. But no, I just think yes, we would have this wine and we would enjoy it.

Joe: 42:06
Solid. Like if you serve this to us, we'd be totally happy. Of course. Like we'd say thank you.

Carmela: 42:10
Of course.

Joe: 42:11
So I say like solid. Yeah. I mean, I mean, if decoy is your thing, like we get it. We get it. We understand why you would like it and why we would choose it. It's a it's you know, it's it's a it's a good for a mass market wine, it's pretty darn good.

Speaker 2: 42:23
Right.

Joe: 42:24
I think so.

Speaker 2: 42:24
Agree.

Joe: 42:25
Okay, Carmela, now it's time to head over to our news desk so that we can we don't actually have a news desk. I just want people to be clear about that. It's all the same desk, but I I say it every week.

Carmela: 42:38
We could turn any desk into a news desk, however.

Joe: 42:42
I agree. So we're heading over to our news desk that doesn't exist so that we can cover our wine in the news this week segment. Wine in the news this week. Our wine in the news this week comes from Richard Woodard, writing for the drinks business. And the article is called Michael Bury Backs Fine Wine as a hedge against AI Hellscapes. We were talking about AI earlier, and now this guy's talking about it as a hedge. So we're gonna talk about this. As always, links to articles and the articles we do for research are in our show notes. Michael Bury, Carmella, is the investor who bet against the housing market before the 2008 crash and made a fortune doing it. He's the guy that Christian Bale played in the big short. Oh, okay. Which we just happened to watch. Amazing. Isn't that weird that we just watched it and this came up?

Carmela: 43:32
I did not plan this. I didn't. Amazing.

Joe: 43:35
Bury, Michael Bury has spent years trashing cryptocurrency, at one point calling Bitcoin the tulip bulb of our time. If you don't know what that refers to, look it up. And now he has landed on something else as the place to put our money. Wine. Yes. He thinks it's wine. And not just any wine, but we'll talk more about that in a second. On his Substack, Bury writes about how he's worried that AI and quantum computing are coming for our digital app. Assets. So he's worried about it. He's concerned about it. Okay. He thinks it's coming for our bank accounts and our investment accounts and our pensions and social security and health insurance. And as a result, he thinks the dollar keeps losing ground to things you can actually hold in your hand. So what is he talking about?

Carmela: 44:19
I don't know.

Joe: 44:20
He's talking about gold. He thinks gold is good, and Bury says it's already climbing because of this exact fear. But he also says you can't eat gold, which is true.

Carmela: 44:29
I wouldn't suggest it.

Joe: 44:30
I wouldn't. And that's where wine comes in, Carmilla. Bury named the actual wines that he means, and they're the ones that you would expect to invest in, like Petreux and Domain Romani Conti and Mouton Rothschild and Sasicaya and Ornelia, right? These are the wines that sell for thousands of dollars a bottle. And Bury's argument is that demand for them holds up whether the economy is booming or falling apart because the kind of person who buys them doesn't count their pennies anyway. And his reasoning is that a case of one of these wines sitting in your cellar works like a bet against the dollar because it has no connection to the stock market. Nobody can make more of it. They can't print more of a vintage. And the supply of each vintage naturally shrinks over time as people drink it. So he also pointed out that fine wine has been in what he calls a bit of a depression. Not sadness, but like lowering in value. Got it. So prices are down from where they were a few years ago. And so he sees the slump in price as a great reason to buy. And this guy knows what he's talking about. Okay? Okay. He's a little crazy, but he knows what he's talking about. Because Bury built his reputation on successfully predicting and profiting from things that are overvalued and undervalued, like technology stocks in the early 2000s and the housing market after 2005. And he may be onto something because Matthew O'Connell, who runs Bordeaux Index, which is the largest player and the secondary wine market, that means you know, people reselling, he backed up Bury's thinking and he noted that prices have corrected, meaning they've gone down since the market peaked in 2022 when everybody was staying home, right? Right. Drinking wine, but said trading on his platform is up more than 40% year over year. And he thinks that's proof that the market is broadening rather than shrinking. So, Carmilla, here's a question. If the world is heading to some sort of AI apocalypse, would you rather be sitting on a case of Petrus or would you rather have your money in something else? What do you think? Do you think it's a good, a good bet?

Carmela: 46:27
Well, I don't think so. I don't know. I know some people do invest in the major investment.

Joe: 46:34
Would you be mad if I brought home a couple of cases of Petrus as an investment?

Carmela: 46:37
Yeah, I just I would think you were a little crazy. I would. I I you know what? You do what you want to do with your money. Thank you. However, it's our money. You know what? However, I think that it's I think it's there are less risky things. I don't know. What do you think? Are you gonna do it?

Joe: 46:53
No, I would not. I just I mean I get it, I get that people do it, but I just don't I wouldn't use I I just don't think of wine as an investment. I don't. I don't either. I just you know, I just don't. No. And maybe I'm a fool.

Carmela: 47:06
Maybe it's an investment in your happiness.

Joe: 47:08
Maybe that's what it is.

Carmela: 47:10
But I don't think you should really look at what you're really gonna make off of it.

Joe: 47:14
You're right. I agree with you. That's why we work so well as a marriage.

Carmela: 47:18
See? Yeah thank God we feel the same way.

Joe: 47:21
Otherwise, be in trouble.

Carmela: 47:22
Okay, the fact that you do buy a lot of wine.

Joe: 47:24
I do, I do. Although I've slowed down. I have slowed down. All right, Carmela, we're gonna go to our interview with Chef Paul, who gave us our tribe name. Hi, Paul, and welcome to the Wine Pair Podcast. Thank you. Glad to be here. We're so excited to have you and and to share your tribe name, which we haven't had a share for a while, so we're excited to have one. All right. So before we get to that though, I do have a couple of important questions to ask you.

Speaker 4: 47:51
All right, fire.

Joe: 47:52
Okay, the first question is what is your favorite wine?

Speaker 4: 47:56
Well, my standard answer is the one that's in front of me. But I would have to say if I had to buy one bottle of wine, it would be Eight Years in the Desert by Orn Swift. Okay. Yearly it's a Zinn blend with whatever else he decides to put in. Dave Finney is one of my favorite winemakers.

Joe: 48:13
So well, and we should let the audience know that Paul is a chef. So you know what you're talking about.

Speaker 4: 48:20
All right. Well, I fake it well.

Joe: 48:23
Okay, next question. When did you start listening to us and how did you find us?

Speaker 4: 48:28
Well, I have an hour commute to work every day. And so I was looking for something to listen to, and I was just getting into some Italian wines, and I think it was the Primitivo episode that you and Carmella did. So I said, Hey, I want to listen to that, and I've just been hooked ever since. And so that's been boy, what, two years now?

Joe: 48:49
Well, you've stuck with it. That's good. I but we appreciate that.

Speaker 4: 48:53
You said it's like having a couple friends drive with me to work.

Joe: 48:56
So that's awesome. We appreciate that. And uh it makes sense. Primativo, Zinfandel, same same grape. So hey, there it all fits, it all comes together.

Speaker 4: 49:06
Yeah, I'm getting more into the Primativo blends than I am the Zinfandel, but you know, it's it's a matter of taste, I guess, uh of terroir.

Joe: 49:14
For sure. And they they are, yeah, they are different. And uh like I said again, too, while white zin has a bad reputation, we had some awesome Primitivo roses when we were in Italy.

Speaker 4: 49:25
Oh yeah, that's a bucket list. I haven't made it there yet. I'm a Lithuanian Polish by birth and Italian by choice.

Joe: 49:33
So yeah, you gotta go. It's awesome. We loved it. Okay, big question now. Tell us the name that you came up with for the tribe and let us know if there's any background or inspiration to it.

Speaker 4: 49:44
Well, I'm a huge Jimmy Buffett fan, so I decided you should be the pair upheads.

Joe: 49:50
I like it. Good inspiration. And do you have a favorite Jimmy Buffett song or album?

Speaker 4: 49:55
Album I do. It's it's one of his lesser-known ones. It's called Floridays. That's one of my favorite albums, and it's just a very laid-back, it's got a little more jazzy than you know, poppy. So just miss him greatly.

Joe: 50:08
That's awesome. Okay, well, that's next on our bucket list, too. We're gonna find that. Thanks, Paul. We really appreciate you being on the podcast.

Speaker 4: 50:15
Well, thank you. It's a pleasure to meet you finally. Say hi to Carmela for me and Mabel.

Joe: 50:19
Uh, okay, nice. We will. Okay, for sure. All right, thanks very much, Paul.

Speaker 4: 50:23
Thank you, Joe.

Joe: 50:24
Okay, take care. Bye-bye. Well, that was awesome. Thanks, Chef Paul. Oh, I love it. We really appreciate you doing that. Let's do some other listener shout-outs. JDM on Blue Sky said that his wife loves light fruity reds. So he bought a crew brojolet for her because that's what we talked about last week. And she didn't like it.

Carmela: 50:45
Oh no, oh no.

Joe: 50:46
Because the crew are a little bit bigger. They're like a little bigger. We didn't find them as like juicy fruity as we thought. Timmy! We haven't heard from Timmy for a while. Timmy! He says he loves him some crew beaujolais. Okay. And he said our mnemonic devices were horrible.

unknown: 50:59
Ha!

Carmela: 51:00
Well, the truth hurts.

Joe: 51:02
The truth hurts. And he said he will also be forever ignorant of the ten crews. He just doesn't, he doesn't care.

Carmela: 51:07
I am, you know what, Timmy? You are totally on the same page as me. I don't really care either.

Joe: 51:12
Timmy, you and Carmela on the same way.

Carmela: 51:14
It just doesn't really matter. And those, yeah, I agree. The whole thing was kind of nuts.

Joe: 51:18
Fair enough. And then I we got a really nice note from Janine. Janine K. I'm not gonna read it all, but first of all, she said Bodie, their golden retriever, says hi to Mabel. Nice, and that he, the dog, yeah, she says she says hi back. And there are a bunch of puzzles that she gave us. Oh my god. You know, like doggy like enrichment. So she, I guess, believes in doggy enrichment.

Carmela: 51:38
That's amazing. And then Mabel's happy about that.

Joe: 51:41
Yes. And then she said they just got back from a week in Oregon.

Carmela: 51:44
Oh, wow.

Joe: 51:45
So she went through all these different places they went to, and all these different like Dundee Hills and Ribbon Ridge and like all these different places they went to give us a whole bunch. We'll put it in our show notes so you can see what she wrote about. Super thoughtful because she knows that we like Oregon. It's kind of our it's in our neck of the wood. I've got a little bit of a love affair going on with Oregon Pinot Noir, but you know what? Beyond that, it's just like super cool that she did that.

Carmela: 52:11
Uh I'm gonna our son also lives down there. This is true.

Joe: 52:16
Well, that's true.

Carmela: 52:16
Isn't that really why you love it?

Joe: 52:18
Yes, it is why I love it. Okay, mostly why I love it. And and the wine. And the wine.

Carmela: 52:22
Wow.

Joe: 52:23
But all of what she said to us, we'll have in our show notes, so you can read it if you want to. But thank you so much, Janine, for doing that. And we appreciate everybody who writes to us and reaches out to us. We really do love it, and we always read it and respond, and we it's just really fun for us. Okay, here's some wines coming up in future episodes in case you want to drink along with us. We're gonna do Loire Cremont, we're gonna do Sylvanor, we're gonna do Valigay, and in our last newsletter, I asked if we should do boxed wine. We got enough positives that I did buy some Juliet boxed wine, a Pinot Noir, and a Semignon Blanc.

Carmela: 52:53
I love it.

Joe: 52:54
So we're gonna try that in a few weeks. That's a popular kind of higher-end boxed wine, so we'll see what people think. Perfect. But thank you for listening to us and supporting. What do you got to say, Mabel? Thank you. Uh, thank you for supporting our show. She's asking you to remember that we buy all of our wine and that we do all the writing and recording and editing each week to bring you a show because we absolutely love doing it. And our small little ask, little dog ask, is that you please follow or subscribe to our podcast and please leave us a really nice five-star rating review to help us through listeners. And again, a huge thank you to all of you who have done that already. You can also follow us on Instagram at Blue Sky and TikTok at the WinePair Podcast. Contact us on our website, thewinepairpodcast.com, sign up for our email newsletter there. You can all also visit our shop wine section where you can find links to buy the wines that we rate as buys in every episode. And we want to make content you care about and you like, so send us a note or DM us, give us some feedback, and let us know if there's wines you want us to try. Look, if there's wines we haven't done in a while and you're like, guys, do this wine again, it's been a few years, let us know. Joe at the winepairpodcast.com. But with that, we're gonna sign off. So thank you once again. We'll see you next time. And as we like to say, life is short. So stop drinking chitty wine.