WTF is Mondeuse? Syrah's Alpine Cousin!

Show Notes

Episode #243: WTF is Mondeuse? Syrah's Alpine Cousin!  00:00

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KEY QUESTIONS

• Is Mondeuse related to Syrah?
• What is Mondeuse?
• What wine is Mondeuse similar to?
• Is Mondeuse a good Thanksgiving wine?
• Should you chill Mondeuse?
• What food goes with Mondeuse?
• What does Mondeuse taste like?

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Episode Overview and First Thoughts on Mondeuse  00:33
Hello fellow wine turkeys! And welcome to The Wine Pair Podcast. I’m Joe, your sommelier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime, Carmela. And we are The Wine Pair!

If you're new to our podcast, here's what we do: Every week we buy wines under $25 with our own money, taste them, and give you our brutally honest opinion on whether they're worth buying. Nobody pays us to review specific wines, we don't accept free bottles from wineries, and we're not afraid to call out a bad wine when we taste one. Decanter Magazine calls us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining - so if that sounds like your vibe, welcome to our tribe of wine lovers.

Carmela, this week we are doing a wine that I have been very curious about, but I don’t think either of us has ever had. It is called Mondeuse (mon - duzz), and it is a French wine that has been finding a foothold in California as well. Kind of like Valdiguié which we covered a few episodes ago.

Before we talk about the winemaking and history behind Mondeuse, I thought we would spend a little time on who this wine might appeal to since I am betting that most of you out there in listening land are like us and have never heard of it, much less tried it. So, we thought it would be helpful to give you some reference points so you can orient yourself to the wine. Kind of like Mapquest. Does anyone remember Mapquest?

For one reference point, wine that Mondeuse is most often compared to is Syrah, particularly Syrah from the Northern Rhône in France, and by the way we are going to go back to the Rhône in a couple of episodes, but that is totally besides the point. Back to Moneuse and Syrah, there are actually a few reasons for the comparison.

First, Northern Rhône Syrah comes from a relatively cool climate, so it tends to have bright acidity, dark fruit flavors, and that black pepper spice that Syrah is known for. And those are all characteristics that you can find in Mondeuse. Now, this is an important distinction because not all Syrah tastes the same. If you are used to drinking big, rich Australian Shiraz, or Syrah from warmer parts of California, those wines can be much heavier, jammier, and higher in alcohol. But Northern Rhône Syrah tends to be fresher, more savory, and more peppery, which makes it a much better comparison to Mondeuse.

There is also a geographic connection. Savoie, where Mondeuse comes from, is just northeast of the Northern Rhône Valley, and both regions have cool climates and vineyards that sit on steep hillsides, and those things help produce wines with great acidity.

And then there is a family connection, too. DNA research has shown that Syrah is actually the offspring of two other French grapes, Dureza and Mondeuse Blanche. And Mondeuse Blanche is itself closely related to Mondeuse Noire, the grape we are talking about today. So these grapes are actually part of the same extended family. Kissing cousins, if you will.

Now, Mondeuse does tend to be a little lighter and more acidic than many Northern Rhône Syrahs, but if you like that combination of dark fruit and peppery spice, there is a pretty good chance you will like Mondeuse.

There are also a number of other wines that Mondeuse is compared to, so let’s go through those.

Another wine Mondeuse is often compared to is Gamay, the grape used to make Beaujolais which you should definitely know about for this Thanksgiving, and I am not talking about Beaujolais Nouveau, but I digress. The Gamay comparison makes a lot of sense because both can be really juicy, with bright red fruit flavors, good acidity, and relatively low alcohol. In fact, you will sometimes find Mondeuse and Gamay blended together in wines from Savoie and Bugey. So there.

In fact, some wine experts describe Mondeuse as having the juicy fruitiness of a really good Beaujolais combined with the peppery spice of Syrah. And that sounds like a pretty interesting combination.

Mondeuse also gets compared to Cabernet Franc from the Loire Valley. One winemaker even described Mondeuse as what you would get if Cabernet Franc and Syrah had a baby. More kissing cousins I guess.

And, Mondeuse is sometimes compared to Pinot Noir. Some lighter styles of Mondeuse can have that same bright, tart red fruit character and lighter body that people love about Pinot Noir. But Mondeuse usually has firmer tannins, a little more spice than Pinot Noir.

Finally, you may hear Mondeuse compared to an Italian grape called Refosco, a grape that we really need to explore because I don’t know much about it. Evidently, Refosco is known for high acidity, firm tannins, and dark cherry and plum flavors. In fact, the two grapes were confused with each other for years, including in some older California vineyards, until DNA testing showed that they were actually different varieties. This is a similar story to what we talked about in our Valdiguié episode where it was confused with Gamay and called Napa Gamay for years.

So, if you are a fan of Syrah, Gamay, Cabernet Franc, Pinot Noir, or Refosco, there is a decent chance you are going to find something to like about Mondeuse. Which is one of the things we love doing about this podcast because we hope we are helping people discover wines they might like that are not just the typical wines that you see in your grocery store everyday. And if you are like us and are someone who likes red wines that are a little lighter, lower in alcohol, and aren't going to punch-you-in-the-face with big, jammy fruit flavors, Mondeuse could be right up your alley.

It has also become something of a favorite among sommeliers and wine geeks who are always looking for interesting, lesser-known grapes - like us. And because quite a few producers in the French Alps are focused on organic, biodynamic, and low-intervention winemaking, Mondeuse has also attracted attention from natural wine enthusiasts.

But one of the other things that makes Mondeuse interesting is how food-friendly it is. That combination of acidity, tannins, and peppery spice means it can stand up to some pretty rich foods. In fact, one of the foods that this wine is often talked about with is raclette. You may have seen raclette and not known what it was called. If you have ever seen a half wheel of cheese that is heated until the surface melts, and then the gooey cheese is scraped onto things like bread and meats and veggies, that is raclette. This wine is also often talked about pairing with fondue, which is a similar vibe, and both of these are foods found in various countries in the villages in the Alps.

So, today we have a couple of Mondeuse wines to taste and review and see what we think and if we like them and if we think you should buy them or other Mondeuse, and then we are going to talk about, as usual, what foods we might pair with, including the Thanksgiving meal because, frankly, most of the wines it is compared to are great Thanksgiving wines, and we’ll also tell you if fondue comes up when we do our food pairing in the tasting portion . . .

But first . . . we have to do our shameless plug.

Thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and know that we buy all of the wine we taste and review every week so that we can give you real and honest reviews. If you like what you’re hearing, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a five star rating and review so we can grow listeners.

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And, as we do every week, we’ll tell you someone we think you should recommend The Wine Pair Podcast to - because the best way for us to grow listeners is when you tell your family and friends about us - and this week, we want you to recommend us to anyone who is looking for a great red wine for Thanksgiving but wants to look beyond the obvious Pinot Noir and Beaujolais, because they may really like this episode.


Topic: WTF is Mondeuse? 12:24

Carmela, let’s find out just what the eff Mondeuse is, shall we?

Now that we know a little bit about what Mondeuse tastes like and who might like it, let's talk about where this grape came from, because it has a pretty interesting history, and it’s a history that may go back thousands of years.

Mondeuse (Mon-duzz) is considered one of the historic grapes of the French Alps, and some people believe its roots go all the way back to the ancient Romans, or even before them. The region we now call Savoie was once home to a Celtic tribe called the Allobroges, who were growing grapes and making wine long before the Romans took control of the area. Ancient Roman writers, including good old Pliny the Elder, wrote about a grape called Allobrogica that grew in this part of France. What was unusual about this grape was that it could survive in pretty cold conditions. It was even described it as a grape that could ripen in the snow. Which I am not sure I believe.

For years, many wine historians believed that Allobrogica was actually Mondeuse, which would make it a grape with more than 2,000 years of history. But, the problem is that nobody has been able to prove it. Other historians believe Allobrogica may have been a different grape entirely, or possibly an ancestor of Mondeuse. So, we can't say for certain that the Romans were drinking Mondeuse, but we do know that grape growing in this part of France goes back a very long time.

The first documented reference to the grape Mondeuse comes from 1731, when it was mentioned under the name Maldoux in a decree issued by the parliament of Besançon in eastern France. This decree actually ordered growers to rip out certain grape varieties, including Maldoux, and replace them with grain crops. So, one of our earliest written records of Mondeuse is basically the government telling people to stop growing it.

Now, there are a few theories about where the name Mondeuse comes from. One theory is that the name comes from the old French word émonder, which means to prune or remove unwanted parts of a plant. This may refer to the fact that Mondeuse vines tend to shed some of their leaves before the grapes are harvested. Another theory is that the name comes from the old regional words moduse or moda, which were used to describe grapes that produced a lot of juice when pressed. And a third theory is that it comes from the French phrase *mal doux*, which roughly translates to "badly sweet," referring to the somewhat bitter taste of the grapes themselves. But, the truth is, we don’t actually know, and there are a lot of theories about this grape, doesn’t it seem?

By 1845, the grape was being documented under the name Mondeuse Noire, and during the 1800s it became an important red wine grape in eastern France and parts of Switzerland. In fact, around 1850, Mondeuse was reportedly one of the most widely planted red grapes in the Swiss regions of Geneva and Vaud.

But in the late 1800s during the phylloxera plague where the insect destroyed many vineyards, disaster struck Mondeuse as well. Like so many other traditional European grapes, Mondeuse lost a huge amount of acreage in the infestation. And while it managed to survive, it continued to decline through much of the 20th century as growers turned to other grape varieties. Wah-Wah

By the 1970s, there were only about 200 hectares of Mondeuse left in France. That's less than 500 acres, so the grape was getting pretty close to going extinct. Fortunately, a group of winemakers in Savoie decided that Mondeuse was worth saving. They began paying more attention to the grape, particularly in places like Arbin, which has become one of the most respected areas for producing Mondeuse.

And that brings us to another interesting part of the Mondeuse story, which involves genetics, Syrah, and a little bit of mistaken identity. More mystery about this wine! Now, we already talked about the genetic connection between Mondeuse and Syrah, but what we didn't talk about is how scientists figured that out.

In the 1990s, researchers at UC Davis, including a grape geneticist named Dr. Carole Meredith, helped uncover the genetic origins of Syrah. And what they discovered was that Syrah was the offspring of two French grapes called Dureza and Mondeuse Blanche. So, this genetic research helped scientists understand something that wine historians had been trying to figure out for years, which was where Syrah actually came from and how it was related to other French grape varieties.

And then there was the Refosco confusion that we mentioned earlier. Remember how California growers thought they were growing the Italian grape Refosco? It turned out that some of those vines were actually Mondeuse! Well, that confusion went on for decades, and it even made its way into the official grapevine collections at UC Davis, where some Mondeuse vines had been labeled as Refosco.

It wasn't until 2005 that DNA testing at UC Davis clearly established that these particular vines were actually Mondeuse Noire and not Refosco. And that means Mondeuse had been growing in California for more than a century, but in some cases people didn't even know what they had.

And so now the question is, how is Mondeuse doing these days?

Despite its long history and renewed interest, Mondeuse is still a pretty rare grape. France remains its most important home, particularly Savoie, where it is considered one of the region's signature red grape varieties. There are only a few hundred hectares planted in France, so we are still talking about a relatively small amount of wine.

You can also find Mondeuse in nearby Bugey, and in much smaller quantities in Switzerland, Italy, and Australia. And, as we mentioned at the beginning of the episode, Mondeuse has been finding a bit of a foothold in the United States, especially in California, where a handful of winemakers are producing it in places like Napa, Sonoma, the Sierra Foothills, and the Central Coast. There are also some producers working with it in Oregon.

Now, Mondeuse isn't suddenly going to become the next Cabernet Sauvignon or Pinot Noir. But it has managed to survive for centuries, nearly disappeared, and is now getting some attention from winemakers who believe it deserves a place in the wine world.

And that is what we are doing today. We are going to see what we think about these two wines we have chosen, if we think they compare to Syrah or Gamay or Pinot Noir or Cab Franc, and let you know if we think it should be on your wine list.

So, now it’s time to learn a little more about the specific wines we are drinking today. Whaddya say?

Mondeuse Wines We Chose for This Episode 19:40

As usual, the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $25, and I won’t say they will be the easiest wines to find, although I did buy one at wine.com and the other I got at a local grocery store chain called Town and Country Market which generally has a pretty good wine selection. So, if you look in the right places, you can find it. I recommend you go to a good wine shop or a store with a good wine selection like I did, especially a good French wine selection, and perhaps a natural wine store, you should be able to find it. And, as always, go to your local wine shop and ask them to help you and they will be happy to. 

The first wine we are going to drink is the 2020 Bernard et Christophe Richel Laradoxe Savoie Mondeuse. I could not find any professional ratings for this vintage of the wine, so we’ll just dig into the wine itself.

The winery says the grapes are meticulously hand-picked, that they use whole bunches, and the grapes undergo a three-week maceration period which can make you go blind. Fermentation takes place in a fiberglass tank for 30 days using indigenous yeast. Fiberglass is new to me! The maceration technique involves twice-daily plunging and pump-over. A gentle pneumatic press is used for the plunging, followed by 12-24 months of aging in seasoned oak barrels.

The wines come from a 0.60-hectare plot which has vines that are 50-55-years-old vines, at an elevation of 380 meters (1246 feet), predominantly with Clay-Limestone soil. They don’t use any herbicides or fertilizers, and instead they use cover crops to control weeds. In the winter, they bring in sheep to control the cover crops. They winery uses organic farming practices and low-intervention winemaking.

The second wine we are going to drink is the 2023 Domaine Jean Vullien & Fils Mondeuse, and I could not find any professional ratings for this vintage either. There was a tech sheet for this wine as well, and here is what I found. The soils the vines grow in are dark Jurassic limestone with a pebbly topsoil layer of scree, which sounds scary, but is not. Scree is degraded limestone fragments that have accumulated over time. The winery says the farm itself is sustainable.

They say they harvest the grapes by hand with strict selection in both vineyard and on the sorting table before they crush them. They destem the grapes, so not whole cluster like the first wine, and then use cold maceration, or skin contact, for 72 hours. Then they continue to macerate and ferment for 10 days, like a teenage boy. Then they say they macerate some more, this time for 20 days with punching and winding daily. First of all, that is a lot of maceration, and the sequence of their macerating is confusing. But the other interesting word was “winding” which I looked up because I didn’t know what it meant, and the interwebs said it is a common mistranslation of pumping over. Which again sounds dirty, but is just a way of extracting more flavor and color and tannins. So, both of these wines are really pretty heavily extracted which I am not sure we are going to love. Could be punch-you-in-the-face wine, but we will see. They also say they bottle without filtering. 

The winery really is run by a father and his sons, which you would expect when they have “fils” in the name: it is run by Jean Vullien and his two sons, David and Olivier. The tech sheet said this about the family which I found interesting:
The Vulliens have been making wine for 40 years, the family is perhaps best known as
a leader in another segment of the wine industry. Since 1890, Vullien Pépinière Viticole (vine
nursery) has been supplying young vines to growers throughout France. In fact, they were the
source for about 25% of the Chardonnay planted in Chablis after the ravages of phylloxera.

But that’s what we got, so I think it’s time to get to drinking. If you have a Mondeuse or French red wine or any wine, quite frankly, drink along with us to get some participation points, and we will be right back. 

LINKS TO SOURCES FOR THESE SPECIFIC WINES

• https://planetwineus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Richel_Mondeuse_Technical_Sheet_PW.pdf 
• https://www.regalwine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Domaine-Jean-Vullien-Savoie-Rouge-Mondeuse.pdf 

2020 Bernard et Christophe Richel Laradoxe Savoie Mondeuse, 2023 Domaine Jean Vullien & Fils Mondeuse Wine Tasting, Pairing, and Review 25:06

Wine: Bernard et Christophe Richel Laradoxe Savoie Mondeuse (Click here to find this wine on wine.com. We may be compensated if you purchase) 
Region: France, Savoie
Vintage: 2020
Price: $19.97
Retailer: wine.com
Alcohol: 12.5%
Grapes: Mondeuse
Professional Rating: Vivino

What we tasted and smelled in this Bernard et Christophe Richel Laradoxe Savoie Mondeuse: 

• Color: Dark purple, some translucence around the rim
• On the nose: Cherry, black pepper, molasses, tar, green pepper, herb, smoke, wood, plum, big, dark fruit, dried currant, dried fig
• In the mouth: Cherry, grippy tannins, orange rind, clove, lighter than expected, should have chilled it

Food to pair with this Bernard et Christophe Richel Laradoxe Savoie Mondeuse: Thanksgiving dinner, fondue, cheeseburger, ham, stuffing, a good food wine
 
As a reminder on our rating scale, we rate on a scale of 1-10, with no half points, where 7 and above means that we would buy it, and 4 and below means that we are likely to pour it down the sink, and a 5 or 6 means we are likely to drink it and finish it, but we are probably not going to buy it. 

Bernard et Christophe Richel Laradoxe Savoie Mondeuse: 

• Joe: 8/10
• Carmela: 6/10

Wine: Domaine Jean Vullien & Fils Mondeuse 
Region: France, Savoie
Vintage: 2023
Price: $24.99
Retailer: Town and Country Market
Alcohol: 12.5%
Grapes: Mondeuse 
Professional Rating: Vivino

What we tasted and smelled in this Domaine Jean Vullien & Fils Mondeuse: 

• Color: Dark purple
• On the nose: Raspberry, tart cherry, pencil, smoke, bramble, clove, black pepper, 
• In the mouth: Tart, should be chilled, spice on the end, pomegranate, raspberry, orange juice

Food to pair with this Domaine Jean Vullien & Fils Mondeuse: Thanksgiving dinner, fondue, enchilada, quesadilla, grilled cheese


Domaine Jean Vullien & Fils Mondeuse Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 7/10
• Carmela: 7/10

Which one of these are you finishing tonight?

• Carmela: Domaine Jean Vullien & Fils Mondeuse
• Joe: Bernard et Christophe Richel Laradoxe Savoie Mondeuse

The Test: Did we nail the taste profiles expected from Mondeuse?  36:47

• General 
  • A mix of dark berries like blackberry and blueberry, balanced by tart red fruits like sour cherry and raspberry
  • Scents of cracked black or white pepper, floral violets, and subtle hints of dried herbs or earthy forest floor
  • Mouthwatering acidity. Light-to-medium-bodied with firm, grippy tannins.
• Bernard et Christophe Richel Laradoxe Savoie Mondeuse
  • Winery: Perfumes of violet and red fruits. Smooth and light tannins with flavors of black cherry on the palate. Peppery notes on the finish.
  • Planet Wine: The nose is of red berries, violet, and spicy notes. On the palate, the tannins are generous and smooth with a lovely persistence. Aromas of blackcurrant, blackberry, and redcurrant with hints of liquorice
• Domaine Jean Vullien & Fils Mondeuse
  • Winery: Spicy and peppery with powerful tannins. Balanced, it enchants the palate with its attack and its length in the mouth, notes of violet and cherries. 
  • Substack called Wine Missives: (paraphrase) Bright aromas of ripe pomegranate, raspberry, and fresh blueberry, with notes of cedarwood, cinnamon, and earthy, woodsy spice. On the palate, the wine is smooth and fresh, with fruit and spice beautifully integrated and a lemon tea and spice component on the finish.

What is our verdict on the Mondeuse? 38:22
We like it. We would definitely chill it - that might be a game changer. It’s a good, solid wine.

And now it is time to head over to our news desk so that we can cover our wine in the news this week segment.

Wine in the news this week: Chianti embraces rosé as EU approves sweeping changes to wine rules 39:00

• https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2026/11/chianti-embraces-rose-as-eu-approves-sweeping-changes-to-wine-rules/

Our wine in the news this week comes from James Bayley writing for The Drinks Business, and the article is called "Chianti embraces rosé as EU approves sweeping changes to wine rules." Links for this news article and the other research we do for the episode are in the show notes as always.

So, most of us know Chianti as a red wine, and for a lot of people it is still the red wine in the straw-covered bottles called fiasco sitting on the shelf at very old-school, family run Italian restaurants and pizzerias. Well, as you can tell from the title, that is changing, which is not something that happens very often in a very traditional winemaking area like Chianti.

If we go all the way back to 2020, a group called the Chianti Wine Consortium, which represents the producers, started working on new rules for the region, and this past June Italy's Agriculture Ministry signed off on the plan. Then on Friday, October 30, the European Union published its approval, which is the final step. And the big change is that Chianti can now officially be a rosé!

You may wonder why one of the most famous red wine regions in the world would want to make pink wine, and the truth is it comes down to sales. Chianti has been dealing with falling prices and weaker demand over the last few years, and the president of the consortium, Giovanni Busi, said something to the effect that rosé gets them into a growing category, especially in the summer when people just aren't buying as much Chianti.

And that makes a lot of sense, and remember, as we always say, if you want to find a rosé you like, start with a red wine you like and you may find that you like the rosé version of the wine. That is especially for those of you who poo-poo rosé, like we used to do.

Back to Chianti, and the question is what makes it a Chianti rosé? It has to be at least 60 percent Sangiovese and can go all the way to 100 percent, with other Tuscan red grapes allowed in the blend. It can be released as early as December 1 of the harvest year, and interestingly, it is not allowed in the fiasco, or those straw-covered bottles. The new rules also lower the minimum Sangiovese in regular red Chianti from 70 percent to 60 percent. Which is super surprising, and I have to be honest, I don’t love it being that low. Feels like you are creating blends at that point. And, yes, Chianti has always been allowed to be a blend, but that feels excessive. I would worry about Chianti staying Chianti at that point, so we’ll have to see what happens.

Carmela, what do you think? If you saw a Chianti rosé on the shelf right next to a rosé from Provence, which one would you grab? And what do you think about the percentage changes?


Listener Shoutouts 43:31

• Timmy - shared his doggie Daisy who looks like a real sweetheart
• East Idaho Foodies confirmed they liked the Frappato and Nero d’Avola blend
• Joe - just started listening, has a tribe name, talked about a great Malbec that we also have reviewed well from Domaine Bousquet, AND he confirmed that the Vanderpump Cremant we reviewed is related to the stupid Vanderpump tv show! Yikes!

Wines coming up in future episodes in case you want to drink along with us 44:51

• Erbaluce: Cieck Erbaluce di Caluso 2024, Luigi Ferrando La Torrazza Erbaluce di Caluso 2024
• Cote du Rhone: Domaine de la Janasse Cotes du Rhone Reserve 2022, E. Guigal Cotes du Rhone Rouge 2023
• Burgundy Cremant: Simonnet-Febvre Cremant de Bourgogne Brut, JCB No. 69 Brut Rose Cremant de Bourgogne

Outro and how to find The Wine Pair Podcast 45:07

Thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and remember, we buy all of our own wine and we do all of the writing and recording and editing to bring you a show every week because we absolutely love doing it, and our small little ask for you is that you please follow or subscribe to our podcast and also please leave us a nice rating and review  to help us grow our listeners - and a huge thank you to all of you who have done so already! 

You can also follow us on Instagram and Bluesky and TikTok at thewinepairpodcast. You can contact us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com, and you can sign up for our email newsletter there and you can also visit our “Shop Wine” section where you can find links to buy the wines that we rate as buys in each episode.  I will also note that on our website, if you are curious about a wine we have covered in the past, we do have a pretty good search functionality, so you can use that find wines you want to know more about. 

And we want to make content you care about and you like, so send us a note or DM us and give us some feedback or let us know if there are wines you want us to try or wine making areas of the world you are curious about - and we’ll take care of it! joe@thewinepairpodcast.com 

Alright, with that, we are going to sign off, so thanks again, and we will see you next time. And, as we say, life is short, so stop drinking shitty wine.

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FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Q. Is Mondeuse related to Syrah?
A. Yes, they're family. DNA research at UC Davis found that Syrah's parents are Dureza and Mondeuse Blanche, and Mondeuse Blanche is a close relative of Mondeuse Noire, the red grape behind Mondeuse wine.

Q. What is Mondeuse?
A. Mondeuse is a red grape from Savoie, in the French Alps, that makes peppery reds with dark fruit and bright acidity. It nearly disappeared in the 1970s, and small plantings exist in Switzerland, Australia, California and Oregon. It's rare, so check a good wine shop.

Q. What wine is Mondeuse similar to?
A. Think Syrah first, for its dark fruit and pepper, though Mondeuse is usually lighter. It can also have the juiciness of a good Beaujolais, and lighter styles come close to Pinot Noir in body, with firmer tannins and more spice. If you like lighter, peppery reds that aren't jammy, try it.

Q. Is Mondeuse a good Thanksgiving wine?
A. Yes, it looks like a strong pick. Savoie Mondeuse comes across as a good food wine, with enough acidity for a rich holiday plate, and it drinks lighter than it looks. Turkey and other poultry, ham, stuffing and gravy all look like good matches.

Q. Should you chill Mondeuse?
A. Yes, a chill looks worth trying. Tasted at room temperature, two Savoie Mondeuses (one very tart, one with grippy tannins) both seemed likely to be better a little cooler. Chilling could be a game changer.

Q. What food goes with Mondeuse?
A. Melted cheese is the classic match. Mondeuse is a traditional partner for raclette and fondue in the Alps, where it cuts through rich, gooey cheese. Cheesy everyday food sounds good with it too: grilled cheese, quesadillas, enchiladas and a cheeseburger.

Q. What does Mondeuse taste like?
A. Expect cherry, raspberry and black pepper with bright acidity, sometimes smoke or clove, and a body lighter than its dark purple color suggests. Tannins can vary: of two Savoie bottles, one had grippy tannins, while the other was less grippy and more tart.

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RESEARCH ARTICLES AND LINKS FOR THIS EPISODE

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondeuse_noire 
• https://bettyswinemusings.com/mondeuse-yes-its-a-french-grape-and-wine/
• https://www.vindefrance.com/wines/grape-varieties-of-france/wine-words/mondeuse
• https://www.wine-searcher.com/grape-928-mondeuse-noire?srsltid=AYCX9vKa9q-73CqmWsK8yf-6LMQVdSTXHuJy2_BP1iGyoJ9huW3wcHvd
• https://daily.sevenfifty.com/why-mondeuse-is-gaining-popularity-among-u-s-somms/
• https://winefolly.com/deep-dive/savoie-wine-guide/
• https://vinodelice.com/en/blogs/news/grape-variety-mondeuse?srsltid=AYCX9vKE6spAXdbITMVBQrvRL0LDMPM_wPR4IWgPCp1FEU3vvwmRVwQT
• https://second.glass/mondeuse-wine-taste-regions-and-pairings/
• https://www.winewithseth.com/winewiki/mondeuse/
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGP1QTxpiyE
• https://enofylzwineblog.com/2017/01/21/mondeuse/
• https://chignin.com/en/blogs/infos/tout-savoir-sur-la-mondeuse-de-savoie-decouvrez-le-vin-rouge-emblematique-de-la-region?srsltid=AYCX9vIEMrAk9PncNbDmDTeDHOv0To7_mJtnFx1HbzInAwcRcBCuo5hH
• https://fringewine.blogspot.com/2011/03/mondeuse-noire-bugey-france.html
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkVVf-5O16o
• https://artisanswiss.com/2019/02/23/mondeuse-the-ghost-of-grapes-past/
• https://www.christinarasmussen.co/words/2018/2/23/focus-on-mondeuse
• https://www.plantgrape.fr/en/varieties/fruit-varieties/172
• https://imbibemagazine.com/why-you-should-be-drinking-mondeuse/
• https://www.winespectator.com/articles/syrah-finds-a-companion-grape-in-napa-47562
• https://fps.ucdavis.edu/FGRfamilies.cfm?varietyid=2689
• https://www.grapecollective.com/professor-carole-meredith-grape-geneticist-university-california-davis/

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FULL TRANSCRIPT

Joe: 00:00
Carmela, we like Pinot Noir and Gamay, right? We do. But we're always looking for another wine. Can we find something like Gamay or Pinot Noir? Right to add to the list. Especially around Thanksgiving, right?

Carmela: 00:10
Mm-hmm.

Joe: 00:11
Well, we might have found one. The wine we're drinking today is called Monduz.

Carmela: 00:15
I like the name.

Joe: 00:16
The other wine that it's often compared to is Syrah. So it's kind of like Pinot Noir and Gamay had a love child with Syrah. Whoa. And came up with this. Mondeuse. Keep listening. Hello, fellow wine turkeys, and welcome to the Wine Pair Podcast. I'm Joe, your Simolier of a reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in Crime Carnelo.

Carmela: 00:45
Hi there!

Joe: 00:45
And we are the Wine Pair.

Carmela: 00:46
Oh, so fitting.

Joe: 00:47
Wine Pair of Turkeys. If you're new to our podcast, here's what we do. Every week, we buy wines under $25 with our own money. We taste them and we give you our brutally honest opinion on whether they're worth buying. Nobody pays us to review specific wines. We don't accept free bottles from wineries, and we're not afraid to call out a bad wine when we taste one. And Decanter Magazine calls us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining. So if that sounds like your vibe, welcome to our tribe of wine turkeys.

Carmela: 01:14
Have you been called a turkey? I have, but I think you're asking those out there listening like yeah, because that was like Joe's other name to his mother.

Joe: 01:23
My mom called us all turkeys. Right.

Carmela: 01:25
I mean, it didn't matter what time of year it was.

Joe: 01:27
Yeah, and usually it was an insult, but sometimes it was meant sarcastically as kind of a love thing. Right. Turkey. I think it was always love. No, no, it wasn't always. Okay, Carmilla. This week we are doing a wine that I have been very curious about, but I don't think either of us has ever had before. It's called Mondeuse. And it's a French wine that has been finding a foothold in California as well, kind of like Valdigier, which we covered a few episodes ago. Right. Before we talk about the winemaking and history behind Mondeuse, which is spelled M-O-N-D-E-U-S-E, I thought we would spend a little time on who this wine might appeal to, since I'm betting that most of you out there in listening land are like us and have never heard of it and never tried it. So we thought it would be helpful to give you some reference points so you can orient yourself to the wine.

Carmela: 02:17
Okay, I like that.

Joe: 02:18
Kind of like MapQuest. You remember MapQuest?

Carmela: 02:21
Some of these people may have no idea about MapQuest.

Joe: 02:24
Before we had GPS, we we printed stuff out.

Carmela: 02:27
GPS didn't actually orient you to anything.

Joe: 02:30
No, it didn't actually.

Carmela: 02:31
You just printed it out.

Joe: 02:32
Yeah.

Carmela: 02:32
Now but anyway.

Joe: 02:34
GPS is much better.

Carmela: 02:35
But do better. Okay. Orient us.

Joe: 02:37
Okay, so for one reference point, wine that Mondeuse is often compared to is Syrah. Yeah, particularly Syrah from the Northern Rhone in France. And by the way, we're gonna go back to the Rhone in a couple of episodes.

Carmela: 02:50
I thought you were about to say, and by the way, we're gonna be going back to France, to the Rhone.

Joe: 02:56
Well, someday we will, but in the episode, in an upcoming episode, we'll go back there. Okay. But that's beside the point. Back to Mondeus and Syrah. And there are actually a few reasons for the comparison. First, Northern Rhone Syrah comes from a relatively cool climate, so it tends to have some bright acidity and dark fruit flavors and even black pepper, that spice that Syrah is kind of known for. And those are all characteristics that you can find in Mondeus. Okay. Now, this is an important distinction because not all Syrah tastes the same. If you're drinking big, rich Australian Shirah's, which yes is Syrah, or from warmer parts of California, those can be heavier and jammier and higher in alcohol, less acidic. But Northern Rhone Syrah tends to be fresher and more peppery, and so it's a good comparison for Mondeuse.

Speaker 4: 03:42
Okay.

Joe: 03:43
There's also a geographic connection to Syrah. Savoie, where Monduz comes from, is just northeast of the northern Rhone, and both regions have cool climates and vineyards that sit on steep hillsides, and those things help with acidity, keeping higher acidity. And then there's a family connection. Oh, really? DNA research has shown that Syrah is actually the offspring of two other French grapes, Dureza and Mondeuse Blanche.

Carmela: 04:12
Oh, wow.

Joe: 04:13
And Mondeuse Blanche is itself closely related to Mondeuse Noir, which is what we're drinking today. Okay. They're kind of they're kind of from the same, they're like kissing cousins, if you will. Whoa. Kissing cousins. Carmela actually had kissing cousins. She had kissing cousins.

Carmela: 04:28
Yeah, but we don't need to talk about it. Really? I mean, it was way back. It wasn't like recent kissing cousins.

Joe: 04:34
Oh, it was like five, six years ago. Okay. Mondeuse does tend to be a little lighter and a little more acidic than many northern Rhone Syrahs. But if you like that combination of dark fruit and pepper, then there's a pretty good chance you're gonna like Mondeuse. Okay. But there are other wines that Mondeuse is compared to, so let's go through those, Carmelo. What do you think? Okay, all right, let's do it. Another wine Mondeuse is often compared to is Gamay.

Speaker 4: 04:58
Okay.

Joe: 04:58
The grape used to make Beaujolais, which you should definitely know about for this Thanksgiving. And I'm not, again, talking about that crappy Beaujolais Nouveau, but I digress. The game comparison makes a lot of sense because both can be really juicy, have bright red fruit flavors, good acidity, and relatively low alcohol. Can you chill this wine? Uh, you know, it's a good question. I didn't, but I I'm wondering, actually, I am wondering that I didn't do it, but maybe when we taste, it'll be like we should have popped it in the refrigerator. Okay. Sometimes you will find Mondues and Gamay blended together in wines from Savoie. Oh. So there. Okay. In fact, some experts describe Mondues as having the juicy fruitiness of a really good Beaujolais combined with the peppery spice of Syrah. Nice. So that's kind of an interesting combo. So if you like that, maybe you know, if you're like, hey, that sounds like something right up my. Yeah. Now Mondeuse also gets compared to Cabernet Franc from the Loire Valley. And one winemaker even described Mondeuse as what you would get if Cabernet Franc and Syrah had a baby.

Carmela: 06:00
Weird. We're talking weird stuff to me. A lot of babies. Family. Kissing cousins. I mean, wine and grapes and families. I don't know.

Joe: 06:07
Uh-oh. Well, and here's another thing.

Carmela: 06:09
I mean, is that how we think about it? That's how we think about it. I always think about it. Family of grapes.

Joe: 06:13
From that lens, yes. Oh. Mondeuse is also sometimes compared to Pinot Noir.

Carmela: 06:18
Okay, great.

Joe: 06:19
So some lighter styles of Mondeuse can have that same bright, tart red fruit character and lighter body that people love about Pinot Noir. But Mondeuse usually has firmer tannins and a little more spice than Pinot Noir, just as a little comparison. And finally, you may hear Mondues compared to an Italian grape called Rifosco. Oh. I don't know what that one is. I've never heard of it. And I want to explore it because I don't know it, what it is. Evidently, Rufosco is known for high acidity, firm tannins like me, and dark cherry and plum flavors. In fact, the two grapes, Carmela, were confused with each other for years, including in some older California vineyards until DNA testing showed that they were actually different varieties. This is exactly like Valdiguier when they were calling it Napa Gamay, and they were like, we think it's this, but it's with actually that. So but nobody knows what Rafosco is anyway. So anyway. Whatever. Yeah. So if you're a fan of Syrah, Gamay, Cabernet Franc, Pinot Noir, or Rafosco, there is a decent chance you're gonna find something to like about Mondeuse. Nice. Which is one of the things that we love doing about this podcast. Because we hope we're helping people discover wines they might like that are not just the typical wines you see every day in your grocery store.

Carmela: 07:35
Right. Opening their minds.

Joe: 07:36
Opening their minds. And if you're like us and are someone that who likes red wines that are a little lighter and lower in alcohol and aren't gonna punch you in the face, then Mondu's might be right up your alley.

Carmela: 07:47
Oh, good.

Joe: 07:48
I always want to say something else.

Carmela: 07:49
I know you looked kind of weird, like a little hesitant there, right up your butt.

Joe: 07:53
It has also become something of a favorite among smolliers and wine nerds who are always looking for interesting, lesser-known grapes like us. And because quite a few producers in the French Alps are focused on organic, biodynamic, and low intervention winemaking, Mondeuse has also attracted attention from natural wine enthusiasts. So if you're into that, maybe you find it.

Carmela: 08:15
I'd be into this.

Joe: 08:16
That's right. But one of the things that makes Mondeuse interesting is how food friendly it is.

Carmela: 08:21
Okay, great.

Joe: 08:22
That combination of acidity and tannins and spice means it can stand up to some pretty rich foods. In fact, one of the foods that this wine is often talked about with is raclette. R-A-C. Food? Yeah, the food raclet. Do you know what that is? No, I don't. You do, though. You may have seen it. Raclette is like a half wheel of cheese that they kind of heat up. Oh. You know, and then they scrap it. You know, they put it under a heat lamp and then they scrape it off and they put it on some bread and stuff like that.

Carmela: 08:49
Oh god, that sounds amazing. That's right. Can we do that? Can we just have a heated piece of cheese going all the time? Yeah. Just so that we can scrape it off and put it on.

Joe: 08:58
That's what this wine is often paired with. And it's similar to fondue. Fon don't, but fondue. Carmela can tell you the story someday of the most expensive fondue in the world that she had when she was in college.

Carmela: 09:10
And I was young and dumb, and I'm still young and dumb. Whoa. Right? No.

Joe: 09:15
One of those I wouldn't say anymore, but I'll let you guess which one. Anyway, that makes sense because this is a wine found in near the Alps. Near the Alps.

Carmela: 09:24
Right. And that's where I was spending some time when I had my very expensive fondue. Yes, that's right. So the Swiss Alps, actually. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Anyway.

Joe: 09:33
So today we have a couple of Mondu's wines to taste and review to see what we think and if we like them and if we think you should buy them. And then we're going to talk about, as usual, what foods they might pair with, including, we're going to do this again, the Thanksgiving meal. Ooh. Because again, a lot of the wines that it's being compared with, Game, Pinot Noir, these are good Thanksgiving wines.

Carmela: 09:54
Can we have cheese this Thanksgiving?

Joe: 09:55
We're going to have the big instead of a turkey, Carmela and I are going to have reclett.

Carmela: 09:59
Yeah.

Joe: 10:00
We're just going to go by everybody and scrape cheese onto their food. Carve cheese. Carve the cheese.

Carmela: 10:04
And now there's something called, what is it, that chef's press. Okay. I don't know. Our daughter wants it for Christmas. Oh, yeah. And you put that cheese. No, but you put that cheese between two pieces of bread and you press that thing down and it just I don't know.

Joe: 10:19
Isn't that a sandwich press or a panini machine?

Carmela: 10:20
Well, that's what, but it's no, it's just it almost looks like a smash burger type of tool, but it's not, it's got some aeration going on too. I don't know. Just me. Now I just want like melted cheese.

Joe: 10:30
Okay, well, we're gonna have melted cheese for dinner, but we got a lot of stuff to do before that, Carla. But first, you gotta do our shameless plug. That's right. So thank you for listening to us and supporting our show and our cheese. And know that we buy all the wine and cheese that we taste and review every week so that we can give you real and honest reviews. We buy our own cheese. That's right.

Carmela: 10:49
And Mabel likes cheese.

Joe: 10:51
She does too. And our reviews, by the way, are not cheesy. If you like what you're hearing, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a nice five-star rating and review so we can grow listeners who like cheese.

Speaker 2: 11:01
We also want or not. Or not.

Joe: 11:04
No, or not. We also want to hear from you and we always respond. Tell us if you like cheese. Follow us on Instagram and Blue Sky and TikTok at the Wine Pear Podcast. Contact us on our website.

Carmela: 11:13
If you had that type of cheese, I want to know.

Joe: 11:16
You can contact us and let us know on our website, thewinepairpodcast.com. You can also sign up for our email newsletter there. And you can always send us a note at Joe at the winepairpodcast.com and in the subject put cheese exactly.

Carmela: 11:29
Well, and the deal is too, is you I now I'm just visualizing this. Maybe I'm hungry. I do have like cut up apples in front of me, and I can't eat them because Joe says it's too loud. Because she'll just chomp into the microphone. You guys don't mind, do you? Oh god. But I would rather have them with cheese. And I keep envisioning now having like one of those, you know, in Greece when they have the souvelki with the lamb on there. I just want a thing of cheese that's what you're gonna get for Christmas. Not like it shouldn't be warm enough so it just melts right off, just enough to carve it.

Joe: 11:59
Right, right. You don't want it dripping all over the water.

Carmela: 12:02
Oh no, you want to be able to carve it. You want it soft enough that you can just like oh my god, you brought that up and now you've gotten me thinking.

Joe: 12:08
I know. And as we do every week, we'll tell you someone we think you should recommend the wine pear podcast to because the best way for us to grow listeners is when you tell your family and friends about us. And this week I have a whole different thing, but maybe you just recommend us to somebody who really likes cheese.

Speaker 2: 12:21
Because this might be the podcast for them.

Joe: 12:24
For them. Okay, Carmilla, let's find out just what the f man duze is, shall we? Let's. Okay, now that we know a little bit about what mondeuse tastes like, like wine comparisons and who might like it, let's talk about where the grape comes from because it has a pretty interesting history. Okay. And it's a history that may go back thousands of years, but who knows? Monduz is considered one of the historic grapes of the French Alps, and some people believe its roots go all the way back to the ancient Romans, or even before them. The region we now call Savoie, don't call it Savoy, Savoie, was once home to a Celtic tribe named the Albroges, Albroges, or Alborges, I don't know how to say it. They were growing grapes and making wine a long time before the Romans came along. And ancient Roman writers, including our good friend Pliny the Elder, wrote about a grape called Aloborriga. I don't know how to say it, that grew in this part of France, but it's similar to the name of the Celtic tribe that I also can't pronounce. Now, what is unusual about this grape was that it could survive in pretty cool conditions, and it was even described as a grape that could ripen in the snow, but I don't believe it.

Carmela: 13:30
Weird.

Joe: 13:31
Okay, so then for I know, very weird. For many years, wine historians believed that alo brogica, however you say it, was actually mondeuse, which would make it a grape with more than 2,000 years of history. But the problem is that nobody has been able to prove it. And other historians believe that alo brogica may have been a different grape entirely, or possibly an ancestor of mondeuse. So we can't say for certain that the Romans were drinking mandues, but we do know that grape growing in this part of France goes back a real long time. Okay, so we know that. Now the first I'm convinced. I'm not. The first documented reference to the grape Mondeuse comes from 1731 when it was mentioned under the name Maldu in a decree issued by the Parliament of Bethaignon, I don't know how to say it, in eastern France. The decree ordered growers to rip out certain grape varieties, including Maldeux, and replace them with grain crops.

Speaker 3: 14:24
Okay.

Joe: 14:24
So the earliest written records of Mondeuse actually is of the government saying don't grow it. Wow. Which is kind of weird.

Carmela: 14:31
Very weird.

Joe: 14:32
Now there are a few theories about where the name Mondeuse comes from. You ready for theories?

Carmela: 14:37
Yeah, give it to me.

Joe: 14:38
One theory is that the name comes from cheese. No, that's a joke. Okay. One theory is that I like it. Okay.

Speaker 2: 14:42
I like that theory.

Joe: 14:43
One theory is that you gotta do jokes in threes. It's coming back again, people. One theory is that the name comes from the old French word emonde, which means to prune or remove unwanted parts of a plant, and this may refer to the fact that Mondeuse vines tend to shed some of their leaves before the grapes are harvested. Another theory is that the name comes from the old regional words moduse or moda, which were used to describe grapes that produced a lot of juice when they were pressed. And a third theory is that it comes from the French phrase mal d'u, which roughly translates to badly sweet, referring to the somewhat bitter taste of the grapes themselves.

Carmela: 15:20
I don't like that one so much.

Joe: 15:21
I don't either, but nobody knows. There's three theories And they still don't know. They still don't know.

Carmela: 15:26
So some people believe in one or the other.

Joe: 15:28
That's right. It's like conspiracies. Some people believe in themselves.

Carmela: 15:31
What do you believe in?

Joe: 15:32
I b I believe in cheese. Okay. By 1845, there's a third one. I'm done with it now. By 1845, the grape was being documented under the name Mondeuse Noir. And during the 1800s, it became an important red wine grape in eastern France and parts of Switzerland. And in fact, around 1850, Mondeuse was reportedly one of the most widely planted red grapes in the Swiss regions of Geneva and Vaud. But in the late 1800s, during the darn phylloxera plague, like so many other traditional European grapes, Mondeuse lost a huge amount of acreage. And while it managed to survive, it continued to decline through much of the 20th century as growers turned to other grapes. Which is kind of sad. Well, it happens. By the 1970s, Carmella, there were only about 200 hectares of Mondeuse left in France. That's only about 500 acres. So the grape was getting pretty close to going extinct. Poor thing. I know. But fortunately, a group of winemakers in Savoie decided that Mondues was worth saving. They began paying more attention to the grape, particularly in places like Arbin, which has become one of the most respected areas for producing Mondues. And that brings us to another interesting part of the Mondeuse story, Carmela, which involves genetics. Oh my kissing cousins.

Carmela: 16:50
I cannot get over all this familial stuff.

Joe: 16:52
Now we already talked about the genetic connection between mondues and Syrah, but what we didn't talk about is how scientists figured that out.

Speaker 4: 16:59
Okay.

Joe: 17:00
So in the 1990s, researchers at UC Davis, including a grape geneticist named Dr. Carol Meredith, helped uncover the genetic origins of Syrah. And what they discovered was that, again, Syrah was the offspring of two French grapes called Gereza and Mondeuse Blanche. So this genetic research helped scientists understand something that historians have been trying to figure out for years, which is where Syrah actually came from and how it was related to other French grape varieties. And then again, there's this rifosco confusion that we mentioned earlier. Remember how California growers thought they were growing the Italian grape refusco? Right. Okay, well it turned out that some of those vines were actually Mondeuse.

Carmela: 17:40
Oh my god, in disguise.

Joe: 17:42
That's right. And that confusion went on for decades. And it even made its way into the official grapevine collections of UC Davis. Or some Mondeuse vines have been labeled Rifosco.

Carmela: 17:52
Amazing. I know. I mean, that's a really bad mistake to make.

Joe: 17:55
I know. And it wasn't until 2005 that DNA testing at UC Davis clearly established that these vines were actually Mondeuse Noir and not refusco.

Carmela: 18:05
So what made them want to even check that out? You know what? Somebody was like, hmm, I don't think this is right.

Joe: 18:11
Well, look, when your job is a grape geneticist, what the hell else can you do?

Carmela: 18:16
That's like that's interesting. Yeah. That's you know, what else can you get you going?

Joe: 18:19
That's it. And so now the question, Carmela, is how is Mondues doing these days? How's Mondu doing these days? Well, despite its long, I'm so glad you asked, despite its long history and renewed interest, Mondeuse is still a pretty rare grape. France remains its most important home in Sabois, we've said, where it's considered one of the region's signature red grape varieties, but there are, as we mentioned, only a few hundred hectares planted in France. You can also find Mondeuse in nearby Bougie in in much smaller quantities in Switzerland, Italy, and Australia. And as we mentioned at the beginning of the episode, Mondeuse has been finding a bit of a foothold in the United States, especially in California, where a handful of winemakers are producing it in places like Napa, Sonoma, the Sierra Foothills, and the Central Coast. Nice. And there's some that are starting to grow it in Oregon as well. Oh wow. Now, Mondeuse isn't gonna suddenly become the next Cabernet Sauvignon or Pinot Noir, but it has managed to survive for centuries. It's a survivor, Carmilla.

Carmela: 19:17
I love it. Surviving and now thriving.

Joe: 19:20
But that's what we're doing today, Carmela. It's we're gonna see what we think about these two wines that we've chosen. If we think they compare to Syrah or Gamay or Pinot Noir or Cabernet Franc or Fosco, which we don't know, and we'll let you know if they should be on your wine list. So I think it's time to learn a little bit more about the specific wines we're drinking today. What do you say? Bring it on. Okay, as usual, the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $25. And I won't say they'll be the easiest wines to find, although I did buy one at wine.com, and the other I got at a local grocery store chain called Town and Country. So they have a pretty good wine selection. So if you look in the right places, you can find it. I recommend you go to a good wine shop or a store with a good wine selection, like we did, especially a good French wine selection, and perhaps a natural wine store. Okay. They may have it. But again, go to your local wine shop, ask them to find you some mondues, and they'll do it for you. Okay. I'm guarantee it. The first wine we're gonna drink is the 2020 Bernard et Christophe Richel Lerado Savoie Mondu. I don't know if I'm saying it right, but I'm saying it with conviction.

Carmela: 20:25
I believe in. Thanks.

Joe: 20:26
I couldn't find any professional ratings for this vintage of the wine, so we'll just dig into the wine itself. The winery says the grapes are meticulously handpicked, that they use whole bunches, and the grapes undergo a three-week maceration period, which can, by the way, make you go blind. Fermentation takes place in a fiberglass tank for 30 days using indigenous yeast. Fiberglass was new for me. I don't recall ever hearing fiberglass. The maceration technique involves twice daily plunging and pump over.

Carmela: 20:57
Plunging now, too.

Joe: 20:59
Yes. And a gentle pneumatic press is used for the plunging. No, this is too much. Yes. And it's followed by 12 to 24 months, they're a little bit vague about that, of aging in seasoned oak barrels. And the wines come from a 0.6 hectare plot, which has vines that are 50 to 55 years old. Okay. And they're at an elevation of about 1250 feet, and the soil is clay, limestone. They don't use herbicides, they don't use fertilizers, but they use cover crops to control the weeds. In the winter, they bring in sheep to control the crops as well.

Speaker 2: 21:34
Oh my god!

Joe: 21:35
And so the winery uses organic farming practices and low intervention. Is that normal? Well, you see that in some of these like sustainable farms, etc., that they instead of using insecticides, they use animals.

Carmela: 21:47
Bring in the sheep. Bring in the GD sheep. I love that so much. And I just would like to witness that. You know what else is good? Sheep cheese. Okay. Sheep's milk.

Joe: 22:00
All right.

Carmela: 22:01
Can we have some, please? Yes. Okay.

Joe: 22:03
Okay, the second wine we're gonna drink is the twenty twenty three Domain Jean Vullien Effuse Mondeuse. And I couldn't find any professional ratings for this vintage either. There was a tech sheet for this wine as well, so here's what we found. The soils the vines grow in are dark Jurassic limestone. Wow. With a pebbly topsoil layer of scree. What? Which sounds scary, but it's not. Scree is degraded limestone fragments that have accumulated over time. And this winery also says that the farm is sustainable. They say they harvest the grapes by hand with strict selection in both vineyard and on the sorting table before they crush them.

Carmela: 22:41
I mean, this is really a lot of descriptors for these. Both of these wines.

Joe: 22:45
I know. They distem the grapes, so not whole cluster like the first wine, and then they use cold maceration to start out.

Carmela: 22:51
Oh my god. Okay.

Joe: 22:54
Then they continue to macerate and ferment for 10 days like a teenage boy. Then they say they macerate some more. No. This time for 20 days with punching and winding daily. Exhausting. I know. First of all, that's a lot of maceration. These people need to like keep it in their pants. That was so much. Anyway, and then the sequence of their macerating is really confusing. But the other interesting word was winding, which I looked up because I didn't know what that meant. And the interwebs says it's a common mistranslation of pumping over. So when you want to be subtle. Yeah, when you want to be subtle, subtle and not just say, hey, pump over, you can say, hey, let's wind it. Oh, let's wind it up. Okay, anyway.

Carmela: 23:41
This is like not G-rated anymore.

Joe: 23:43
It's not. Both of these wines are pretty heavily extracted, which means I'm not so sure we're gonna love them because we don't we tend not to love extract heavily extracted wines can be kind of punch you in the face. But we're not gonna prejudge. No. We're gonna find out. The winery is run by a father and sons, which you would expect when they have Phil's Fields, F-I-L S in the name. It's run by Jean Voulien and his two sons, David and Olivier. And the text sheet said this about the family.

Speaker 3: 24:11
Okay.

Joe: 24:11
The Vouliens have been making wine for forty years. The family is perhaps best known as a leader in another segment of the wine industry. Since 1890, Voulien Pepier de Coler, the nursery has been supp I totally botched that, has been supplying young vines to growers throughout France. In fact, they were the source for about 25% of the Chardonnay planted in Chablis after the ravages of Filor Sere.

Carmela: 24:39
Somebody is just completely cringing out there.

Joe: 24:41
It's very cringe. But that's it. That's all we got. So I think it's time to get to drinking. If you have a Mondeuse or French red wine, I said wed wine, or French red wine, or any wine, quite frankly, just drink along with us. And we haven't talked about this for a while, but get some cheese, get some cheese and participation points, and we'll be right back. Okay, we're back and we're ready to try our first wine. This is the Bernard de Christophe Russia La Redor Savoie Mondeuse. It's from Savoie France. It's the 2020 vintage. It was $19.97 at wine.com, 12.5% alcohol, 100% mondeuse. I couldn't find any ratings. But Carmilla, what you said something about the bottle.

Carmela: 25:28
Oh, I just thought it is a nice looking bottle.

Joe: 25:31
Yeah. It's kind of simple, like the label's simple, but the bot the bottle itself is a pretty well, it's kind of bottom heavy.

Carmela: 25:38
It's like it's a you know, it's very thick at the bottom.

Joe: 25:43
Do you want me to keep going? No, I think that's enough. It's I like its bottom. God, it's got a nice anyway. It's kind of a Pinot Noir model.

Speaker 2: 25:52
I don't know. Okay. Sorry I mentioned it.

Joe: 25:55
Let's talk about the color.

Speaker 2: 25:56
It's so dark.

Joe: 25:57
It's very purpley.

Speaker 2: 26:03
It's so purpley.

Joe: 26:04
It's so dark.

Speaker 2: 26:05
It's so dark outside. So I don't even think it's a bit more. It matches the night. Nighttime color.

Joe: 26:10
It actually does have a little bit of around the rim, kind of got some like nice, more translucent around the rim, but it is dark. It's a dark wine.

Carmela: 26:17
It is.

Joe: 26:17
Okay, let's smell it and see what we think.

Carmela: 26:20
I mean, it's rich. I'm getting a lot. Do you want me to say first?

Speaker 4: 26:25
Yeah.

Carmela: 26:26
Wow. Um, I mean, I'm getting cherry, black pepper, uh, molasses, tar.

Joe: 26:33
I'm getting a little bit of green pepper.

Carmela: 26:36
What did you think? I didn't say pepper. Oh, I said black pepper. Black pepper.

Joe: 26:39
But I'm getting like, you know, like almost herby. Oh, wow. An herby, green peppery kind of smell.

Carmela: 26:44
Funny. I'm not really getting kind of, you're getting a little veg, huh?

Joe: 26:47
Yes, definitely. Oh, interesting.

Carmela: 26:49
Interesting. Interesting. Okay.

Joe: 26:51
But I am getting spice smoke, a little like wood on it.

Carmela: 26:55
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Joe: 26:56
And plummy. It's plummy.

Carmela: 26:58
I mean, it's quite nice. It's big. Like it almost is like a candle. It's very rich.

Joe: 27:04
It definitely is. Making me cough.

Carmela: 27:06
No. He's coughing over here.

Joe: 27:08
Yeah, it's it's like big dark black fruits. So let's taste it.

Carmela: 27:12
Even like kind of sorry, some dried fruits. Yeah. A currant. Oh, I like that. Um, a raisin, a really rich raisin. Or a fig. Fig, I like that.

Joe: 27:22
Maybe a little figgy.

Carmela: 27:24
Oh my god, it's making me cough.

Joe: 27:25
All right, let's taste it now. Can we taste it now? You can taste it. Alright, let's taste it. You know, it's nice. It's less, it's it's kind of lighter in the mouth than I thought in terms of flavor.

Carmela: 27:36
For sure.

Joe: 27:37
It does have really grippy tannins.

Carmela: 27:39
Yeah, I'm right away. I'm getting that for sure.

Joe: 27:41
Very cherry to me. Super cherry tasting. Like a a dark cherry, but but not an overly ripe dark cherry.

Carmela: 27:49
Yeah, no, I'm kind of getting the same flavor.

Joe: 27:52
Yeah.

Carmela: 27:53
I'm not getting, yeah, I'm not getting all the notes I was getting in the bouquet.

Joe: 27:57
No, I mean it's kind of one note. It's not like super complex. It does have some like pepper and smoke on the end, on the end of it, I get that. But I do get the acidity.

Carmela: 28:06
Yes, absolutely.

Joe: 28:08
Yeah, like I think it is a good food wine.

Carmela: 28:10
Yeah. It's almost like uh this, I don't even know quite if this is, but it's almost like a sangria, almost. Why do you think it's almost like I'm getting some like orange rind or something in it?

Joe: 28:21
I like that.

Carmela: 28:22
I don't know. Maybe I'm not, maybe it's not sangria. I'm thinking, but you know, sometimes you'll it won't be a mold wine or something. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Maybe there is a little bit of clove in it too. Clove, I like. I don't know, but I just kind of feel like you could almost taste like like some cut up orange in it.

Joe: 28:40
Yeah.

Carmela: 28:40
I don't know.

Joe: 28:41
But you know what? It's got acidity and that's citrusy often in our mouths. And so that totally makes sense to me that it would have like a blood orange or something.

Carmela: 28:49
Right, right.

Joe: 28:50
Well, and let's speak of food, because I think this would be a good food wine. What what like let's start with Thanksgiving Thanksgiving dinner. Would you have it with Thanksgiving dinner? For sure. Yeah, for sure.

Carmela: 28:59
For sure. I think this would actually be really nice because I don't I think it's lighter than I expected to be the taste.

Joe: 29:05
I agree.

Carmela: 29:06
And so I think like turkey um would be a really nice meat with it, actually.

Joe: 29:11
I think it'd be good chilled. I think so too. I do think you could chill this and it would be it would take a little bit of the edge off of some of the batannins, maybe yeah. I think it'd be really nice.

Carmela: 29:20
No, turkey would be nice.

Joe: 29:22
Fondue.

Carmela: 29:23
Oh, I think you could definitely have fondue with this. Could you? Fondue it. Should we have some sliced melty cheese?

Joe: 29:30
Let's wind it up with some fondue. A little pump over. Gently pneumatic press. Whoa. Anyway, no, I think this would be good with a raclette. I think it'd be good with Thanksgiving. I think it'd be good with meat, cheeseburger. Yeah. What else?

Carmela: 29:47
Yeah, no, I like all of those. I do think that, yeah, I have Thanksgiving on the mind, but you could do like ham. Like, you know, you could have ham. You could do like a stuffing with this, you know. I think this would be really good.

Joe: 30:01
Yeah, I think it'd be really good with food. I do.

Carmela: 30:03
I think I think you kind of want to have food with this wine, actually.

Joe: 30:06
Yeah, I mean, it's nice. It's a little one note, but I think with food it'd be awesome. Okay, let's rate it. As a reminder and a rating scale, we rate on a scale of one to ten. We don't give half points. Seven and above means we'd buy it. Four below means we're gonna pour it down the sink, and a five or a six means we're gonna drink it and finish it. Thanks for serving it, but we're not gonna buy it. So, Carmela, what rating are you gonna give this one?

Carmela: 30:27
I'm having a hard time with it.

Joe: 30:28
Uh-oh.

Carmela: 30:29
No, I mean, I'm kind of like, would I buy it? I would definitely drink it. But I mean, it's a cool bottle. There's a lot of it has a good lot of good qualities. Right now I'm kind of leaning towards a six.

Joe: 30:39
Okay.

Carmela: 30:40
But um, I don't know. It may bump it up to seven.

Joe: 30:42
Okay, well, I'm gonna have to balance it out because I was gonna give it a seven, but I think I'm gonna give it an eight.

Carmela: 30:47
Oh my gosh, you're really loving it.

Joe: 30:50
Well, what I think is I think it's an excellent food wine because it's got great acidity and not overpowering flavor.

Carmela: 30:57
Yeah, true.

Joe: 30:58
And I think it would be good chilled. Like I think if we had chilled this like you had suggested, maybe I just asked. Yeah, I didn't know. It was a good question. I think we'd like it even more. So just to balance it out so it uh equals, you know, it averages out to a seven.

Carmela: 31:12
Okay. I'm gonna do it. Okay, and I'm again, I'm not uh fully on board with my seven, my six, yeah. Yeah. May change it. Let's see.

Joe: 31:18
We always reserve the right to change our score.

Carmela: 31:21
Okay.

Joe: 31:21
Okay, we're gonna take a break and try our next wine. Okay, we're Mabel has finally woken up. We're back and we're ready to try our second wine. It's the Domain Jambienne Fil Mandu. It's also from Savoie, France. This is the 2023 vintage. It was $24.99 at Town and Country Market. Nice. And they do have the 2025 at wine.com, by the way, that that vintage. 12.5% alcohol and a percent mondues. I couldn't find any professional ratings. But Carmela, let's talk about same similar bottle. Similar bottle. Uh let's talk about the color.

Carmela: 32:00
It's uh it's dark again, but I don't know if it's quite as dark.

Joe: 32:03
That's what I was gonna say. I think it's it's very purpley, but I don't think it's quite as opaque as the first one. Right. A little more like ruby shimmer on the phone.

Carmela: 32:12
Yeah, right. I wouldn't like the last one, I was like, whoa, that's dark. Yeah, I didn't right out of the gate say this, but it I say that about this wine, but it's dark.

Joe: 32:19
But you like you wouldn't pour this and go, oh, I bet this tastes like game or pinot noir. It's dark. No, it's dark. It's dark wine. Okay, let's smell it and see what we think.

Carmela: 32:28
Different, not as fruity. I'm getting like overload, you're getting a lot of fruit.

Joe: 32:32
It's so funny because I was like raspberry and cherry and tart cherry.

Carmela: 32:37
Totally different today.

Joe: 32:38
Yeah, what are you getting?

Carmela: 32:39
I was getting like a little bit of like graphite or pencil.

Joe: 32:42
Okay, okay, pencil lead. Um I get that. I totally get that.

Carmela: 32:46
Almost a little steely, yeah, and almost like maybe like blackberry, like a bramble.

Joe: 32:52
Okay, a little dirt on it.

Carmela: 32:53
Yeah, a little bit.

Joe: 32:55
I'm getting a little smoke on it, maybe a little little spice, a little smoke.

Carmela: 33:00
Yeah, definitely some spice.

Joe: 33:02
Yeah. What kind of spice? A clove again, or you think it's a little bit more.

Carmela: 33:04
I think so, but I a little bit of both, I think, too. I think I'm kind of getting a little bit of baking spices. Um, yeah, more intense ones like a clove, probably, and then maybe some black pepper too.

Joe: 33:15
Yeah, this one's a little the last one. I was getting some vegetable smells. I'm not getting that on this one, but I am getting quite a bit of fruit. Let's taste it and see what we think. Okay, it's very tart.

Carmela: 33:26
It is tart.

Joe: 33:26
It's much more, I mean, it smelled kind of that way to me, like more raspberry to me. But it's different than the first one. This one is it is definitely more acidic and more tart than the first one. Right. And it is, again, I think we should have chilled these.

Carmela: 33:40
I kind of think so too.

Joe: 33:41
Yeah, I think this one has a little bit more Pinot and Game kind of flavor to it, with I think a little bit of that spice on the end.

Carmela: 33:49
Yeah, yeah. No, it's nice. Actually, I think this is a little smoother than the other one. Um, and I am, yeah, I do feel like it's raspberry. I mean, it's so dark that you're expecting it to be like a punch you in the face wine. But I'm kind of almost getting like pomegranate, yeah. The ras like raspberry, like you said.

Joe: 34:08
You know what I'm getting on this one? It's orange. I'm getting orange on this one, like almost orange juice. Like it's very acidic and tart, and that acid is coming across to me like an orange. Very much so. Yeah, very much so.

Carmela: 34:23
Very, I mean, don't don't challenge me. No, I'm saying, bro. Okay.

Joe: 34:29
It's funny that you think this one's a little smoother because I don't actually. I think the first one was a little bit more like fill up the mouth, richer, like grippier tannins. This one, the tannins aren't as grippy. It kind of floats like the the flavor kind of lingers in the mouth a little bit longer, that sort of acidic flavor. I don't think it has as much tannin on it. So to me, it doesn't dry out as well as the first one.

Carmela: 34:52
Okay.

Joe: 34:52
But what food would you pair with this wine?

Carmela: 34:55
Well, I think again, you could do a Thanksgiving dinner with this part, sure. And I think I'm you know, I'm thinking about the gravy, like it could handle all of those richer flavor flavors for sure.

Joe: 35:07
Stuffing.

Carmela: 35:08
Yep.

Joe: 35:08
Uh, what about raclette or fondue?

Carmela: 35:11
For sure. Look, I'll eat cheese with just about anything.

Joe: 35:15
Yeah, I know.

Carmela: 35:15
But I think it would be nice.

Joe: 35:17
Enchilada.

Carmela: 35:18
Oh, yeah. What wow.

Joe: 35:20
Quesadilla. I'm thinking about cheesy things.

Carmela: 35:22
Oh.

Joe: 35:23
I was like, what the heck? I'm just throwing out cheese. Like, I don't think it's very likely that I don't know. Here's the thing. I don't think it's super likely that DoorDash is gonna deliver raclette or fondue.

Speaker 2: 35:35
Come on.

Joe: 35:36
But I think we can get it, I think we can get a quesadice.

Speaker 2: 35:39
Ooh, I would love a nice quesadice.

Joe: 35:42
That's what the Italians call it. No, they don't. No, I don't what the heck. Anyway, any other foods you'd have with them?

Carmela: 35:47
Um, no, I like all that. I mean, I think also, like, again, like going back to the cheese, but you could do like a nice grilled cheese with this.

Joe: 35:54
I fully agree with a little bit of tomato soup, it'd be so good. Tomato bisque.

Carmela: 36:00
I would I would really enjoy that.

Joe: 36:02
What rating are you gonna give this wine?

Carmela: 36:04
I actually think I like this one more. Okay. What rating are you? I'm gonna give it a seven, okay.

Joe: 36:08
Okay, okay. I am like really close on a six.

Carmela: 36:13
Oh.

Joe: 36:13
But I'm gonna give it a seven just because I love you and I don't want you to feel it. Don't do it for me. I'm doing it for you, Argentina.

Carmela: 36:19
You don't need to. I can handle myself.

Joe: 36:21
No, I like it. I like it. I would drink it.

Carmela: 36:23
You're saying I like you. I like it.

Joe: 36:24
I just uh I'm it's I'm really close on a six between a six and a seven.

Carmela: 36:28
Well, we were really different tonight. Six seven, six, seven.

Joe: 36:31
Yeah. I just think you know, if I'm gonna buy a wine, I gotta buy something that you like. And so I'd like to. Yeah, but I don't know. I think if it was cold, I'd like it better. Okay. All right, Carmelo, which of these are you finishing tonight? The Jean. The Jean. I'm gonna finish Bernard. Okay. Okay, let's let's see if we nailed the taste profiles expected from Mondeuse. In general, it's a mix of dark berries like blackberry and blueberry, balanced by tart red fruits like sour cherry and raspberry, scents of cracked black or white pepper, floral violets, and subtle hints of dried herbs. Or earthy forest floor, mouth watering acidity, firm grippy tannins. So I think we did okay. The Bernard, the winery said perfumes of violet and red fruits, smooth and light tannins. I didn't think they were light, I thought they were pretty grippy. Flavors of black cherry on the palate, yep, peppery notes on the finish. Yeah, I think we got that. Planet Wine said the nose is of red berries, violet, and spicy notes on the palate. The tannins are generous and smooth with a lovely persistence. Aromas of blackcurrant, blackberry, and red currant with hints of licorice. The domain, the winery said spicy and peppery with powerful tannins. That's funny because I didn't think they had hardly any tannins at all. Balanced. It enchants the palate with its attack and its length in the mouth. I agree with that. Notes of violet and cherries. Okay.

Carmela: 37:51
Lots of violets.

Joe: 37:52
Mm-hmm. I agree. I wasn't getting a ton of violets, but you know, what are you gonna do? A substack called Wine Misses. This is a paraphrase. Bright aromas of ripe pomegranate, okay, raspberry, fresh blueberry, notes of cedar wood, cinnamon, and earthy woodsy spice. The palette is smooth and fresh, fruit and spice beautifully integrated with a lemon tea and spice component on the finish. So I wasn't getting lemon tea, but I got citrus. I mean, I was getting orange. Right. So there you go. What's the verdict on mondeuse?

Carmela: 38:25
Oh, I like mondeuse.

Joe: 38:26
What would you do?

Carmela: 38:28
What I would do differently with man deuce is I would chill it and I would do that and see, because I think that might be a bit of a game changer with this wine.

Joe: 38:37
I agree. I'm with you.

Carmela: 38:38
But what would you do?

Joe: 38:39
Yeah, I think I agree. I think uh I would I would definitely chill it. I think I would serve it with poultry. I think it would be great.

Carmela: 38:47
Yeah, I think it's a good wine.

Joe: 38:48
Yeah.

Carmela: 38:49
It's a very, I don't want to say average because that doesn't sound good, but it's like a it's a solid wine.

Joe: 38:55
Agree. Okay, now it's time to head over to our news desk so that we can cover our wine in the news this week segment. Wine in the news this week. Our wine in the news this week comes from James Bailey, writing for the drinks business. And the article is called Chianti Embraces Rose. Oh. As EU approves sweeping changes to wine rules. Okay. And links for this news article and all the other research we do for the episode are in the show notes, as always. So most of us know that Chianti is a red wine, right? And for a lot of people, it's the red wine in the straw-covered bottles called Fiasco. Yes, the bottles are called fiasco on the shelf at very old school family-run Italian restaurants and pizzeria,'s right? That's what you kind of think of. As you can tell from the title, that's changing, which is not something that happens very often in a very traditional winemaking area like Chianti. Now, if we go all the way back to 2020, well, don't remind us of 2020. A group called the Chianti Wine Consortium, which represents the producers, started working on new rules for the region. And this past June, Italy's agriculture ministry signed off on the plan. Then on Friday, October 30th, so just a little bit ago, the European Union published its approval, which is the final step. And the big change is that can Chianti can now officially be a rose.

Carmela: 40:19
Oh my gosh! Big news.

Joe: 40:21
I know it is big news. Now you may wonder why one of the most famous red wine regions in the world would want to make pink wine, and the truth is it comes down to what do you think? The people. The people and money, yes. The same no, but they're together. The people want to make money. Again, no script, guys. No, she doesn't get it. Chianti has been dealing with falling prices and weaker demand over the last few years, and the president of the consortium, Giovanni Bussi, said something to the effect that rose gets them into a growing category, especially in the summer when people aren't buying as much Chianti.

Carmela: 40:54
Okay, see? Sound business. They finally decided they've got to go with the flow.

Joe: 40:59
The people and the and the cheese.

Carmela: 41:01
And and the cheese. And the cheese.

Joe: 41:03
And it makes a lot of sense. As we always say, if you want to find a rose you like, start with a red wine you like, and you may find that you like the rose version of the wine. And that's especially for those of you who are continuing to poo-poo rose like we used to, but we don't poo-poo anymore.

Carmela: 41:18
No, not anymore.

Joe: 41:19
Now, the question is what makes it a Chianti rose?

Carmela: 41:23
What makes it a Chianti rose?

Joe: 41:25
Well, now this is kind of interesting. It has to be at least 60% Sangiovese. Sangiovese is the grape in Chianti, but only 60%. It can go all the way up to 100%, but it has to be at least 60%. Okay. And other Tuscan red grapes are allowed. It can be released as early as December 1st of the harvest year, and it is not allowed to be put in one of those bottles with the strong. Okay. It can't be a good idea. I agree with you. The new rules also lower the minimum Sangiovese in regular Chianti as well. Why? I don't know. They may they wanted to change the rules. So it used to be that Chianti had to be at least 70% sangiovese. Now it's down to 60% as well for the red.

Carmela: 42:06
Oh boy.

Joe: 42:07
So that kind of I don't like that as much.

Carmela: 42:09
I'm not sure that needed to happen. Yeah. Are they trying to cut corners?

Joe: 42:13
I I think I think that's what it c I think it comes down to cost, frankly. And maybe some changing taste because they can put in grapes like Cabernet and Merlot as well as other local grapes.

Carmela: 42:24
Well, I wonder if they can kind of make one and the other kind of simultaneously if that's what the requirement is.

Joe: 42:30
I I guess, but I mean I just I don't like that Chianti has become only sixty percent Sangiovese as the as the requirement. Agree. I mean Chianti's always been a blend, and sometimes you do get 100% sangiavese, but once you get down to 60%, I mean what are you really? What are you what are you anymore?

Carmela: 42:47
Right.

Joe: 42:48
Carmelo, what what do you think though? Would you grab a Chianti rose? For sure. You would you if you had your choice, like you were like, oh, there's a whole bunch of roses on the shelf.

Carmela: 42:58
Well, it might be intriguing to me because a Chianti is, you know, an Italian wine and it's something that everybody grew up with in our family. It was like the wine um of the time back in the day. So I would I'm it would intrigue me.

Joe: 43:13
It would intrigue me as well. I'm with your sister. Oh, she's not my sister.

Speaker 4: 43:16
Oh my god.

Joe: 43:17
Okay. I agree with you. I would grab I I've really liked Rose from Nebbiolo. I've really liked Rose from Primitivo. I've really liked Rose from Pinot Noir. I think I'd like Rose from Keonto. I think so. Me too. From San Gervaise. Okay, some listener shout-outs. Timmy! Woo! He sent us pictures of his dog Daisy. Oh. And she looks like a real sweetheart. And he said he was a real sweetheart. Oh, I know, I bet. Yeah. And then the East Idaho Foodies reached out from Instagram. They confirmed that they liked the Frappato and Neurodehavila blend. Remember, I said I was like, I wasn't sure because she was mentioned Barnyard, and I was like, maybe that's it. But she liked it. They liked it. They liked it.

Speaker 4: 43:56
Good to know.

Joe: 43:56
And then a listener named Joe.

unknown: 43:58
What?

Joe: 43:59
Great name. He has a tribe name. I asked him if he wants to be on the podcast, but he he didn't respond. So I'm worried that I might have pushed Joe away. Joe, respond. Come on, baby.

Carmela: 44:09
Maybe he just was like, I just got a name, but I don't need to any more attention than that.

Joe: 44:13
Yeah, he's like, I did the I did my job. Now you do it.

Carmela: 44:16
Joe from the Wine Pair podcast.

Joe: 44:17
He's a different Joe. I hope it's not me because that would be really weird.

Carmela: 44:20
It's really weird.

Joe: 44:20
And then he did talk about a great mall back that he likes that we've also done on the podcast called Domain Bosquette. And he confirmed this, Carmilla. The Vanderpump Cremant we reviewed is related to the Vanderpump.

Carmela: 44:34
It had to be. See, I should probably just known that, but I don't know the show well enough, and I didn't know the wine.

Joe: 44:41
And we didn't trust ourselves.

Carmela: 44:42
No, but I mean, of course.

Joe: 44:44
Vanderpump.

Carmela: 44:45
Have you seen the show?

Joe: 44:46
Do you think they do Vanderpump overs?

Carmela: 44:48
I mean, probably.

Joe: 44:49
I'm sure they macerate. Okay, anyway, lines coming up in future episodes in case you want to drink along with us. And you could go to our show notes and find links and the vintages and all that. We're going to do Erbeluce, we're going to do Cote d'Aron, and we're also going to do Burgundy Cremant. We've got a few others coming, but if you have ideas, let us know and we'll do them. But that's it, Carmela. So thank you for listening to us and supporting our show. And remember, we buy all of our own wine and we do all the writing and recording and editing and cheese making to bring you a show every week because we absolutely love doing it. And our small little ask for you is that you please follow or subscribe to our podcast and also leave us a nice five-star rating review to help us grow listeners. And we want to thank you so much to all of you who have taken the time to do that. Follow us on Instagram and Blue Sky and TikTok at the WinePar Podcast. Contact us on our website, thewinepearpodcast.com. Sign up for our email newsletter there. Visit our shop wine section where you can find links to buy the wines that we rate as buys in each episode. And we want to make content that you care about and you like, so send us a note or DM us. Give us some feedback. Let us know if if there's wines you want us to try. Just shoot the breeze. Tell us if you like cheese. That's what we want to know.

Carmela: 45:56
Right. That's what we really want to know.

Joe: 45:57
And if you had cheese for dinner. And if we made you want to have cheese.

Carmela: 46:01
Right, because and if you want to carve cheese, like on your own steak.

Joe: 46:05
And if you want us to send you one of those presses, we'll do that.

Carmela: 46:08
Right. Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. Whatever.

Joe: 46:11
Whatever you do. Yeah. We're with you. Uh email us at Joe at the WinePurPodcast.com. That's it. So we're gonna sign off. Thank you once again. We'll see you next time. And if we like to stay like a short, stop drinking shitty.

Speaker 5: 46:27
At the end of my story, I always think too much, always drink too much, I always bring too much, always play too much, and when I give too much, I fall in love too much. And whenever we too much, I hug him for your touch.