Aglianico Rosato: If You Love a Bold Red Wine, Try Its Rosé!

Show Notes

Episode #233: Aglianico Rosato: If You Love a Bold Red Wine, Try Its Rosé!  00:00

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KEY QUESTIONS

• If you like a bold red wine, should you try the rosé made from the same grape?
• What does Aglianico rosé (rosato) taste like?
• Why does a bold red grape like Aglianico make such a distinctive rosé?
• What food pairs well with Aglianico rosé?
• Is rosé wine just a blend of red and white wine?

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Episode Overview and First Thoughts on Aglianico Rosato AKA Rosé  00:36

Hello fellow wine nuts! And welcome to The Wine Pair Podcast. I’m Joe, your sommelier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime, Carmela. And we are The Wine Pair! 

If you're new to our podcast, here's what we do: Every week we buy wines under $25 with our own money, taste them, and give you our brutally honest opinion on whether they're worth buying. Nobody pays us to review specific wines, we don't accept free bottles from wineries, and we're not afraid to call out a bad wine when we taste one. Decanter Magazine calls us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining - so if that sounds like your vibe, welcome to our tribe of wine lovers.

Carmela, today we are going to go back to a wine style that is often considered controversial and just as often poo-pooed, and very often a wine that is gendered, and even worse, associated with older aged people, and that wine is Rosé. Now, we have said this before many times that we were very opinionated about Rosé in the past, and that opinion was not positive. Like many people, we poo-pooed Rosé. We didn’t consider it serious enough. We thought it was sort of fake wine that was for your old aunt who insisted on putting ice cubes in it. 

And, now, we would like to say, we are sorry. And that we were wrong. But not about our Aunt. She can put ice cubes in it all she wants

I would say that, particularly in the United States, Rosé is misunderstood and underappreciated, and we are aiming to change that, after initially trying to undermine it. But, I will add a caveat. Rosé is, again, a style of wine, not a specific wine in and of itself, and this alone is one of the reasons it is so misunderstood. 

So, first, our PSA. If you think you don’t  like Rosé, what you need to do is find a Rosé made from your favorite red wine grape, and yes, all Rosé wines are made from red wine grapes because it is the skins of the grapes that give Rosé wines, and frankly the vast majority of red wines, too, their color. 

But, beyond that, I did want to spend just a couple of minutes on why Rosé is controversial before we get to the real purpose of this episode, which is to dig into, and taste, and review, Rosé wine made from one of my favorite red wine grapes and a red wine grape that is considered one of the great Italian wine grapes and that is Aglianico, but let’s talk first about a few reasons why wine snobs sometimes dismiss Rosé.

• The Provence Problem: Because it is the Provence-style of rosé that sort of exploded globally, which is not our favorite kind of Rosé by the way, the market is flooded with identical, pale, neutral wines. So, people associate Rosé with this style, but that is not fair. 
• Tannin and Texture Bias: Many wine snobs equate "serious wine" with heavy tannins. However, by their nature Rosé wines have less tannin because they spend only a few hours on the skins. Therefore, traditionalists often view them as lightweight or simple.
• Summer Sipper Positioning: Rosé is heavily marketed as a lifestyle beverage meant to be drunk cold by young people the pool. While there is certainly nothing wrong with that, serious wine drinkers dismiss this as somewhat unserious.
• Ignorance of the great Rosé wines: Even “serious” wine people often don’t know about great Rosé wines from places like Bandol or Tavel which are highly regarded and made to very exacting standards. 
• The Misunderstanding of Production: The way Rosé is made is misunderstood. Some think it is a mixture of red and white wine, others think that it is made mostly of the “run-off” of red wine. Sometimes that is true, called the saignee or bleeding method, but most Rosé is actually made intentionally or  purposely made to be a Rosé wine.

But, Carmela, we are not here to worry about wine snobs and their judgy opinions about Rosé. No. We are here to learn more about Rosé or Rosato made from the great Algianico grape, and we have two Italian Rosato wines made from Aglianico to taste and review to see if you should run out and buy them . . .

But first . . . we have to do our shameless plug.

Thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and know that we buy all of the wine we taste and review every week so that we can give you real and honest reviews. If you like what you’re hearing, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a five star rating and review so we can grow listeners.

We also love to hear from you and we always respond so you can follow us on Instagram and Bluesky and TikTok at thewinepairpodcast. You can contact us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com, and you can sign up for our email newsletter there and you can also send us a note at joe@thewinepairpodcast.com and let us know about wines your want us to review or just shoot the breeze, we love chatting it up.

And, as we do every week, we’ll tell you someone we think you should recommend The Wine Pair Podcast to - because the best way for us to grow listeners is when you tell your family and friends about us - and this week, we want you to recommend us to anyone who doesn’t respect Rosé wine because they might just find that this episode and Aglianico Rosé starts to change their minds a little bit.


Topic: WTF is Aglianico Rosato AKA Rosé? 08:30

Carmela, let’s find out just what the eff Aglianico Rosato AKA Rosé is, shall we?

So, first of all, let’s just say that despite this being a thing, there is not a ton of information about Aglianico Rosé, so we will be a little brief. The first thing you should know again is that, as a red wine, Aglianico is considered one of the great Italian red wines, second only to Nebbiolo which is the grape in Barolo and Barbaresco. And, another important note, in Italy, they often call Rosé wine Rosato, so don’t let that confuse you.

Evidently, Aglianico is one of the premier grape varieties for Italian rosé, and they are highly regarded for their structure and depth. Because the Aglianico grape has super high tannins, even brief skin contact, which is again where rosé gets its color from, it creates rosés that are brighter in color and firmer in structure than typical rosés. Aglianico Rosé wines also tend to be dry, savory, and complex. Like me.

Aglianico is grown across southern Italy, but it is in Campania, which is the region where Naples is located as well as the famous town of Taurasi, which we visited, which is where some of the most famous Aglianico wines are from, and in the regino of Basilicata which is the region where the amazing city Matera is, as well as the cool town we went to on our trip last year where your grandfather’s mom was from called Melfi. Those two areas are considered the top places where Aglianico rosé comes from.

We talk about the top tier of Italian wine classification often, and the two top tiers again are DOC and then the tippy top DOCG, and there are only two DOCGs in Italy that make rosé. One of them happens to be Aglianico del Taburno Rosato DOCG, and it is located in the Sannio Beneventano region which is north and east of Naples. It has high-altitude vineyards (200 to 600 meters) and big swings in temperature between night and day which slow grape ripening, which helps keep the natural acidity in the grapes while creating a lot of aromatic complexity. By regulation, these rosés must contain 85% Aglianico.

Irpinia Rosato DOC is also in the Campania area near Naples, and is pretty new, just being designated in 2005. In Irpinia, the guidelines require a minimum of 70% Aglianico.

In Basilicata, there is an extinct mountain called Vulture, and some great wines are made in that area in the volcanic soils. In fact, Aglianico del Vulture is a great wine by the way. One of my faves. Anyway, in Basilicata, the rosé is classified as IGT, which as we have mentioned is not as strict as DOC or DOCG in terms of rules, but there are great, great wines that fall under the designation. Because the rules are less strict, there is no percentage of Aglianico that is required, but many of the rosé wines there are made with 100% Aglianico and some are even aged in French oak.

Aglianico rosé is not a light rosé in terms of body and flavor, but it is light in color. It is known to have good structure and power, as well as good acidity. That means it can be paired with foods that other rosé wines would not do well with.

Aglianico rosato is still relatively niche, but it is increasingly being taken seriously, with winemakers creating “deliberate” rosé wines (rather than as some sort of byproduct of red winemaking as we mentioned before). A reviewer for the Wine Advocate named Aglianico as one of the top five Italian grapes for rosé, alongside grapes like Sangiovese and Nerello Mascalese. Not on that list was Nebbiolo which we think makes a great rosé, so shame on that person for missing it!

Beyond that, rosato has been gaining ground all across Italy, where producers are starting to use their better grapes to make rosé. For some further context, Italy is the world’s fourth-largest rosé producer and exports roughly half of what it makes, so knowing about rosato made from traditional, classic red wine grapes like Aglianico is important, at least we think so if you are an aspiring wine nerd.

I will say when we were in Italy last summer, I saw and we drank a lot more local rosé than I remember, and we always liked having them, whether they were Aglianico, Primitivo, or even Ciro. Everyone is making rosé in Italy now it seems.

But that’s enough information. I think it’s time to learn a little more about the specific wines we are drinking today. Whaddya say?

Aglianico Rosato AKA Rosé Wines We Chose for This Episode 15:19

As usual, the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $25, and they should be relatively easy to find because I bought them at wine.com. I am a little irritated with wine.com right now because they screwed up an order of mine and were not apologetic about it, so just go to your local wine shop, and avoid the big retailers when you can. While we use wine.com for the podcast because they are convenient, we are not sponsored by them or anything, so just let us know if you know someone who works there so we can give them a piece of our mind. Anyway, as always, just use your local folks. And, while I don’t think Aglianico Rosato will be super easy to find, a good Italian wine shop, or a shop with a good Italian wine section will have it. 

The first wine we are going to drink is the 2024 San Salvatore Vetere Rosato, and this wine is from Campania, which again, is the region where Naples is located. Specifically, this wine is from the Paestum IGT, and if you have not been to Paestum, all we can say is, it is one of the most amazing places we have ever been. Imagine Greek temples in Italy, because that’s what it is, when that part of Italy was part of Magna Grecia. Amazing. Anyway, this wine is 100% Algianico, and this wine got a 92 from Wine Enthusiast, and a 90 from Vinous. 

The winery says the wine is made using 6 hours of cryomaceration. Cryomaceration is not crying while you macerate, ha ha ha, but rather a technique in which crushed grapes are held at very-low, often sub-zero temperatures, to extract color, aromas, and flavors without triggering alcoholic fermentation. Because yeast cannot activate at these super low temperatures, flavors and pigments leach into the juice. Winemakers use it to boost color and smooth out tannins, and to increase fruity aromas. 

Then they soft press with brief skin contact, it doesn’t say how brief, then they ferment in stainless steel tanks, and then they age it in stainless steel tanks on the lees for 6 months. So, again, the lees is the yeast and other stuff left over from the fermentation process that when left on the fermented wine gives more mouthfeel and sometimes a bit of funk and/or bitterness on the wine. 

The San Salvatore winery was founded in 1988 and specializes in indigenous grape varieties such as Fiano, Falanghina, and Aglianico. The owner also runs a 5-star hotel and a buffalo farm, and seriously, you should visit a buffalo farm where they actually make mozzarella di Bufalo when you are in that area of Italy. They use these animals to provide natural fertilizer for the crops, they grow their grapes organically, and in some cases biodynamically as well. We should have visited this winery when we were there. 

The second wine we are going to drink is the Feudi di San Gregorio San Greg Rosato, and this one got a 91 from Vinous. We have had wines from Feudi San Gregorio before, specifically in our Greco di Tufo episode from a ways back, and they are one of the larger wine producers in Italy. This is also an IGT, specifically a Campania Rosato IGT.

The winery says the wine is produced on the highest hills of Irpinia, up to 700 meters above sea level. They say the grapes are rigorously hand-picked and then taken to the winery where they
are gently pressed to get the most noble part of the juice. Which sounds important. Noble.
They sound like they are trying to make an “apertif” wine, so they leave the wines on the skin, or macerate the wine, for less than two hours. They also say they ferment in stainless steel and age for 4 months in stainless steel. They seem to be going for an easier drinking wine appropriate with appetizers. 

So, we’ll see if we can tell a difference between these two wines. I am very intrigued and excited to try them 

But, I think that is enough information - let’s get to drinking! We’ll take a quick break and be right back. And, if you have these wines or similar wines, drink along with us to get some participation points, which you can trade-in for free stickers. You just need to send me an email with your mailing address, and I will get those “I drink with The Wine Pair Podcast” stickers over to you!

LINKS TO SOURCES FOR THESE SPECIFIC WINES

• https://serendipitywines.com/sales-sheet/?wc_id=159346&default=1  
• https://www.vergani.ch/products/paestum-igp-rosato-vetere-san-salvatore 
• https://store.feudi.it/wp-content/uploads/2026/04/SAN-GREG-2025_Scheda-tecnica-ENG.pdf 

2024 San Salvatore Vetere Rosato, 2025 Feudi di San Gregorio San Greg Rosato Wine Tasting, Pairing, and Review 20:50

Wine: San Salvatore Vetere Rosato (Click here to find this wine on wine.com. We may be compensated if you purchase)
Region: Italy, Campania
Vintage: 2024
Price: $26.97
Retailer: wine.com
Alcohol: 11.5%
Grapes: Aglianico
Professional Rating: WE: 92, V: 90 Vivino: 4.2

What we tasted and smelled in this San Salvatore Vetere Rosato: 

• Color: Very light pink, peach, blush
• On the nose: Rose, cherry, peach, crunchy red fruit, strawberry
• In the mouth: Strawberry or cherry on the front, orange creamsicle, lemon sorbet, strawberries and cream, easy drinking, light, crisp

Food to pair with this San Salvatore Vetere Rosato: Versatile with food, fish, fried fish, shellfish, octopus, fried foods, spicy foods, alfredo sauce, prawns with a light cream sauce, smoked salmon pasta, bagel with cream cheese and lox, salmon eggs benedict, frittata, deviled eggs, a brunch wine
 
As a reminder on our rating scale, we rate on a scale of 1-10, with no half points, where 7 and above means that we would buy it, and 4 and below means that we are likely to pour it down the sink, and a 5 or 6 means we are likely to drink it and finish it, but we are probably not going to buy it. 

San Salvatore Vetere Rosato Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 7/10
• Carmela: 8/10

Wine: Feudi di San Gregorio San Greg Rosato (Click here to find this wine on wine.com. We may be compensated if you purchase)
Region: Italy, Campania
Vintage: 2025
Price: $25.97
Retailer: wine.com
Alcohol: 12.5%
Grapes: Aglianico
Professional Rating: V: 91 Vivino: 4.0

What we tasted and smelled in this Feudi di San Gregorio San Greg Rosato: 

• Color: Pink, coral, almost artificial looking
• On the nose: Yeasty, smells like yeast proofing, white grape, citrus, grapefruit
• In the mouth: Grapefruit, Paloma cocktail, a little harsh, some tea, very acidic, wine cooler, lime juice out of a squirt bottle at the end

Food to pair with this Feudi di San Gregorio San Greg Rosato: White pizza, bready foods, focaccia, calzone, it’s a little harsh

Feudi di San Gregorio San Greg Rosato Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 5/10
• Carmela: 6/10

Which one of these are you finishing tonight?

• Carmela: San Salvatore Vetere Rosato
• Joe: San Salvatore Vetere Rosato

The Test: Did we nail the taste profiles expected from Aglianico Rosato AKA Rosé?  34:14

• General 
• As would be expected, the taste profile is going to change a ton based on the style the winemaker is going for and how they make their wines, so let’s just dig into the wines we had today. 
• San Salvatore Vetere Rosato
• Winery: Red fruit aromas on the nose, with hints of wild rose, violet and Mediterranean scrub. On the palate this wine is elegant and expressive with excellent balance.
• WE: The nose opens with aromas of strawberry lemonade, wild cherry and mandarin blossom, then turns salty. Salt and citrus take over on the palate, even as undertones of riper strawberries and cherries create a mouthfeel that's simultaneously full, bouncy and vibrant.
•  Feudi di San Gregorio San Greg Rosato
• Winery: Clear pink with vibrant reflections. Floral nose with notes of blood orange, hibiscus, & red berries. Fresh & savory with notes of just-picked red fruits & cherry nuances.
• V: nuances of rose and nectarine meld with sweet spice. Pleasantly ripe in style, citrus-enhanced red berry fruits are further complicated by a stern mineral tinge. The mouth waters for more through the finish as hints of sour melon linger over a saline resonance.

What is our verdict on the Aglianico Rosato AKA Rosé? 36:26
Love it, the first bottle was a great bottle. We would like to explore more of them. A great example of when you like a red wine, you will probably like the Rosé made from it

And now it is time to head over to our news desk so that we can cover our wine in the news this week segment.

Wine in the news this week: People with higher IQ scores tend to know more about wine, study finds 37:18

• https://www.psypost.org/people-with-higher-iq-scores-tend-to-know-more-about-wine-study-finds/ 
• https://doi.org/10.65550/001c.165719 

Our wine in the news this week comes from Eric Dolan writing for PsyPost, and there are links to the article in the show notes, but this one is awesome. The article is called “People with higher IQ scores tend to know more about wine, study finds.” I mean, come on. That is too perfect!

A new study out of Saarland University and the University of Edinburgh is built around something researchers call the g nexus, which is basically the idea that raw intelligence works like an engine for learning almost anything, even things you don’t need to know for your work or for school.

To prove this is real, the researchers picked wine as their test case because wine is complicated, there's specific grape vocabulary, regional and national law, chemistry and even taxonomy all its own, and unlike school or your job, nobody grades you on it or pays you for it. It’s just complex knowledge that, if you know it, it’s generally because you want to know. And why you are still here, listening to our podcast I might add.

The researchers tested 525 people, gave everyone a standard IQ test and then a 68 question wine exam built from the same material used for real WSET certification. And, the results held up in a way that apparently surprised even the researchers. Higher IQ predicted more wine knowledge, and that stayed true even after accounting for whether someone worked in the wine industry or just preferred drinking wine over beer.

The study also uncovered that structure and obligation seem to be what teaches you something, not just enjoying stuff. One of the researchers put it well when he said the pleasurable route adds to your knowledge, but the structured route multiplies it. And that fits a lot of wine nerds like us because we love wine, and that love of wine wants us to learn more about it so we can appreciate it more, and learning and retaining requires some sort of structured path. Again, why you are listening to our podcast, and why we think all of you out there in listening land are  just smarter.

The researchers did say that you cannot necessarily determine someone's IQ based on their wine knowledge at a dinner party, and that nothing in the study says smart people have better or more discerning palates. But, whatever. We think wine people are just smarter.

Carmela, does that track with people you know who really get into wine?


Listener Shoutouts 40:43

• George (via email) - who reached out to ask us to do a little disclaimer on our Finger Lakes wine episode based on the fluctuation on things like the number of wineries and amount of grapes they grow. 

Wines coming up in future episodes in case you want to drink along with us 41:18

• Gamay - Beaujolais, Morgon: 2023 Domaine Gaget Cote du Py Morgon, 2024 Domaine Yohan Lardy Moulin-a-Vent Cru Beaujolais Les Michelons
• Decoy wines: 2023 Decoy California Cabernet Sauvignon, 2025 Decoy Sauvignon Blanc
• Loire Crémant: Gratien Meyer Cremant de Loire Brut, Langlois Cremant de Loire Brut Rose
• British bubbly: 2018 Henners Brut Vintage

Outro and how to find The Wine Pair Podcast 41:53

Thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and remember, we buy all of our own wine and we do all of the writing and recording and editing to bring you a show every week because we absolutely love doing it, and our small little ask for you is that you please follow or subscribe to our podcast and also please leave us a nice rating and review  to help us grow our listeners - and a huge thank you to all of you who have done so already! 

You can also follow us on Instagram and Bluesky and TikTok at thewinepairpodcast. You can contact us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com, and you can sign up for our email newsletter there and you can also visit our “Shop Wine” section where you can find links to buy the wines that we rate as buys in each episode.  I will also note that on our website, if you are curious about a wine we have covered in the past, we do have a pretty good search functionality, so you can use that find wines you want to know more about. 

And we want to make content you care about and you like, so send us a note or DM us and give us some feedback or let us know if there are wines you want us to try or wine making areas of the world you are curious about - and we’ll take care of it! joe@thewinepairpodcast.com 

Alright, with that, we are going to sign off, so thanks again, and we will see you next time. And, as we say, life is short, so stop drinking shitty wine.

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FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Q. If you like a bold red wine, should you try the rosé made from the same grape?

A. Yes, it's worth trying. A rosé (rosato in Italian) made from the same grape as a red you love, like Aglianico, keeps a version of that grape's real character, just lighter, since brief skin contact still shapes the flavor. It won't guarantee every bottle is great, but the logic holds especially for bold, high-tannin reds.

Q. What does Aglianico rosé (rosato) taste like?

A. It varies a lot bottle to bottle. One version tasted like strawberries and cream with orange creamsicle and lemon sorbet notes, light and crisp. Another leaned grapefruit and cocktail-like, more acidic and tea-tinged. Both landed firmer and more savory than a typical pale rosé.

Q. Why does a bold red grape like Aglianico make such a distinctive rosé?

A. Aglianico is naturally high in tannin, one of Italy's boldest red grapes. Even a few hours of skin contact pulls in enough tannin to give the rosé real structure and brighter color than typical pale rosé, plus a drier, more savory character instead of light fruit alone.

Q. What food pairs well with Aglianico rosé?

A. It's food-friendly across a wide range. A lighter, fruit-forward style works well with fried fish, shellfish, octopus, smoked salmon, deviled eggs, and brunch dishes like eggs benedict. A drier, more acidic style pairs better with bready foods like focaccia, calzone, or white pizza. Match the wine's weight to what you're eating.

Q. Is rosé wine just a blend of red and white wine?

A. No, that's a common misconception. Real rosé gets its pink color from letting red grape skins sit briefly with the juice, not from mixing red and white wine together. Some rosé comes from bleeding off juice during red wine production, called saignée, but most quality rosé today is made intentionally as its own wine, not a byproduct.

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RESEARCH ARTICLES AND LINKS FOR THIS EPISODE

• https://guide.michelin.com/en/article/features/%E4%BA%94%E7%A8%AE%E7%8E%AB%E7%91%B0%E9%A6%99%E6%AA%B3%E7%9A%84%E9%A0%82%E7%B4%9A%E8%91%A1%E8%90%84 
• https://taurasidocg.com/en/buy/campania-wines/rose-wines/?srsltid=AfmBOor3tmzbgiS2uL-JuE5NhCd-hOJPN8_rfbODLm9jhdKRkwyzglIN
• https://winejournal.robertparker.com/top-5-italian-grape-varieties-for-rose
• https://www.gamberorossointernational.com/news/the-11-best-rose-wines-from-campania-made-from-aglianico-and-piedirosso-selected-by-gambero-rosso/ 
• https://italianwinecentral.com/a-rosy-future/
• https://www.quattrocalici.it/denominazioni/aglianico-del-taburno-o-taburno-docg/
• https://katieparla.com/rosato-italian-rose/
• https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomhyland/2023/06/29/italian-rosatishades-of-beauty/
• https://www.lucianopignataro.it/a/lacrimarosa-2006-campania-igt/3298/ 
• https://www.lucianopignataro.it/a/irpinia-aglianico-rosato-2011-doc-di-mario-struzziero/44986/ 
• https://www.lucianopignataro.it/a/campania-stories-2026-il-grande-giorno-dei-rossi-e-dellaglianico/293368/ 
• https://www.lucianopignataro.it/a/paestum-degustazione-coperta-rosati-campani-2005/2280/ 
• https://wineandotherstories.com/wine-of-the-month-july-il-rogito-cantine-del-notaio/
• https://www.wine-searcher.com/regions-irpinia

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FULL TRANSCRIPT

Joe: 00:00
Carmela, they are making rose in Italy.

Carmela: 00:04
I know.

Joe: 00:06
But not just any old rose. They're making rose from some of the greatest red wine grapes in Italy. Wow. Like the one we're having today, Alianico.

Carmela: 00:16
Nice.

Joe: 00:17
So we have two Alianico roses. They're both pretty different from each other. And just a little spoiler, we don't want to spoil the whole thing, but if you like a red wine, try that red wine's rose. Just do it. Hello, fellow wine nuts, and welcome to the wine pair podcast. I'm Joe, your simolier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in Crime Carmela.

Carmela: 00:46
Hi there.

Joe: 00:47
And we are the Wine Pear.

Carmela: 00:48
Yippee!

Joe: 00:50
Wow. That wasn't a great one. If you're new to our podcast, here's what we do. Every week we buy wines under $25 with our own money. We taste them and give you our brutally honest opinion on whether they're worth buying. And nobody pays us to review specific wines. We don't accept free bottles from wineries, and we're not afraid to call out a bad wine when we taste one. And Decanter magazine calls us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining. So if that sounds like your vibe, welcome to our tribe of wine lovers or wine nuts.

Carmela: 01:18
I I mean, who did that one?

Joe: 01:20
Me.

Carmela: 01:22
I mean, did you just wake up and just say wine nuts?

Joe: 01:24
Wine nuts, yeah. I did. I did. Why not? Wine nuts. Okay, Carmella, today we're going to go back to a wine style that is often considered controversial and just as often poo-pooed, and very often a wine that is maybe even gendered or even worse, associated with older aged people. And that wine is rose.

Carmela: 01:44
Oh gosh, I was trying to guess. I was like gendered. It's going to be a white wine. And then you said old.

Joe: 01:49
Don't you think rose kind of fits that?

Carmela: 01:51
Yes, I do. But wait, you were saying that it's judged?

Joe: 01:55
Yeah, it's opinion. It's controversial.

Carmela: 01:57
Okay, that's a yeah.

Joe: 01:58
Now, we have said this before many times that we are very we were very opinionated about rose in the past. And that opinion was not positive, Carmela. No. And like many people, we did poo-poo rose. We didn't consider it serious enough. We thought it was sort of a fake wine that was for your old aunt who insisted on putting ice cubes in it. Which old aunt? I'm not gonna name names. But anyway, we would like to say now that we are sorry.

Carmela: 02:23
Oh.

Joe: 02:24
And we were wrong.

Carmela: 02:26
And we love rose.

Joe: 02:27
Yeah, and it's okay if your aunt wants to have rose and put ice cubes in it. That's fine too.

Carmela: 02:32
I'm just trying to figure out which aunt. Don't worry about it.

Joe: 02:34
We'll talk about it afterwards. Now, I will also say that particularly in the United States, rose is misunderstood and underappreciated. And we are aiming to change that ironically after initially trying to undermine it.

Carmela: 02:47
And it's not supposed to be serious anyway.

Joe: 02:49
Well, I mean, it can be, it can be, but I mean you don't have to be, you don't have to be so serious about everything all the time, is our point. Right. Uh, and I will say a caveat, we'll talk about this. Rose is a style of wine, it's not a specific wine in and of itself. And this alone is one of the reasons why it's so misunderstood. And so, our first PSA or public service announcement, if you will, Carmella, is that if you don't think you like rose, what you need to do is find a rose made from your favorite red wine grape. And yes, all rose wines are made from red wine grapes because it's the skins of the grapes that give rose wines their color. And also red wine's their color, by the way, too. So if you like Cabernet, get a Cabernet rose. If you like Pinot Noir, get a Pinot Noir rose. That's awesome to do. But beyond that, I did want to spend just a couple of minutes on why rose is controversial before we get into the real purpose of this episode, which is to dig into and taste and review rose wine made from one of my favorite red wine grapes, and a red wine grape that is considered one of the great Italian wine grapes, and that's alianico.

Speaker: 03:56
Oh, yeah. Okay, really?

Joe: 03:58
Yeah, so we'll get there in a second, but first, let's talk about a few reasons why wine snobs sometimes dismiss rose Shawi Carmela.

Carmela: 04:06
Let's do it.

Joe: 04:06
Okay. There's the Provence problem. That's the first one, because it's the Provence style of rose that's sort of exploded globally, and it's really kind of not our favorite kind of rose, by the way. And the market is kind of flooded with it, and it's kind of this identical, pale, neutral wine. So people associate rose with this style, but that's not fair. And by the way, we're not trying to yuck your yum. If you like Provence style rose, more power to you. Of course. But it's just not our cup of tea. Right. Okay. There's also the tannin and texture bias. Like many wine snobs equate serious wine with heavy tannins. But you know, by their nature, rose wines have less tannin because they spend only a few hours on the skins.

Carmela: 04:46
They're not trying to be those other wines.

Joe: 04:48
They're not. But because of that, traditionalists often view them as lightweight or simple. That's okay. Yeah, that's okay.

Carmela: 04:54
I like a lightweight wine.

Joe: 04:56
I totally agree.

Carmela: 04:57
I like a lightweight.

Joe: 04:58
Not me, but other lightweights, I guess. Uh, there's also the summer sipper positioning. Rose is heavily marketed as a lifestyle beverage meant to be drunk cold by young people by the pool.

Carmela: 05:10
Young people?

Joe: 05:11
Well, I don't know. I mean, more often young people, you don't want to see me by the pool. Let's just put it that way.

Carmela: 05:16
Well, you could be drinking it by the pool.

Joe: 05:18
I know, but nobody wants to see me in an ad drinking it by the pool.

Carmela: 05:22
How do you know?

Joe: 05:23
Okay, anyway, there's certainly nothing wrong with drinking rose by the pool or young people drinking it.

Carmela: 05:30
Drinking rose by the pool that we don't have and quite frankly do not want.

Joe: 05:35
We don't want, but serious wine drinkers sometimes dismiss that as unserious. Oh. There's also the ignorance of great rose wines. Like even serious wine people often don't know about great rose wines from places like Tavelle or Bandol. And these are highly regarded and made to very exacting standards. So there's that. And then the last one is just the misunderstanding of production. Some people don't understand the way rose is made. Some think it's either a mixture of red and white wine, which we found out is actually bluge, but that's not what rose is. And others think that it's mostly made of kind of like this runoff of red wine. And while that sometimes is true, there is the Sagnier method. Most of the time, rose is actually made intentionally or purposely to be a rose wine because that's what the winemaker is trying to make. Right. But you know what, Carmelo? We're not here to worry about wine snobs and their judgy opinions about rose, which again we used to be. No, we're here to learn more about rose or rosato, if you will, if you're Italian. Wow. Yeah. Made from the great Alianico grape. And we have two Italian Rosato wines made from Alianico to taste and review to see if you should run out and buy them.

Carmela: 06:49
But first, you gotta do our shameless plug.

Joe: 06:52
That's right. So thank you for listening to us and supporting our show. And remember, we buy all the wine that we taste and review every week so that we can give you real and honest and unbiased reviews. And so if you like what you're hearing, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a five-star rating and review so we can grow listeners. We also love to hear from you and we always respond. So you can follow us on Instagram at Blue Sky and TikTok at the WinePair Podcast. You can contact us on our website, thewinepairpodcast.com. You can sign up for our email newsletter there, which is gonna come out pretty soon. It always comes out first of the month. Be be the first on your block to get the newsletter. And you can also send us a note at Joe at the WinePair Podcast.com and let us know about wines you want us to review or if you think Rose is underappreciated or overappreciated if you poo-poo, whatever, just shoot the breeze. Oh my. We don't care. We just want to talk. Right. Let's Joe just needs company sometimes. They do because now with Mabel, I our little dog, I don't get to talk to Carmela that much anymore.

Carmela: 07:46
And as we we don't leave you out.

Joe: 07:48
No, you don't, but I do feel it's two women, and I just feel a little bit overmatched.

Speaker: 07:53
Oh, wow.

Joe: 07:54
Yeah. And as we do every week, we'll tell you someone we think you should recommend the wine pair podcast to, because the best way for us to grow listeners is when you tell your family and friends about us. And this week we want you to recommend us to anyone who doesn't respect rose wine because they may just find that this episode and Arianico Rosé starts to change their minds a little bit.

Carmela: 08:14
And there's nothing wrong with changing your mind. No, it's actually healthy.

Joe: 08:17
It's a sign of growth. Growth mindset.

Carmela: 08:20
I love it. Yeah. Even about wine.

Joe: 08:22
Uh about everything.

Carmela: 08:23
Start with wine.

Joe: 08:24
Start with wine, end with, I don't know.

Carmela: 08:26
And then other things just will get easier.

Joe: 08:28
They'll fall into place. I like that. Okay, Carmela, let's find out just what the f Alianico Rosato, aka Rose is all about, shall we?

Speaker: 08:36
Let's.

Joe: 08:37
Okay, so first of all, let's just say that despite this being a thing, I mean Alianico Rose being a thing, there's not a ton of information about Alianico Rose. Uh, and Carmela will appreciate this. We're gonna be a little bit brief.

Carmela: 08:49
Okay. Yeah. The first thing you should know. So I don't go off here. That's right. Whoa. We're still you know, no, because we are still getting up with a puppy.

Joe: 08:57
Yeah, that's what she meant.

Carmela: 08:58
Yes.

Joe: 08:59
Okay, the first thing you should know again is that as a red wine, Alianico is considered one of the great Italian red wines, second, maybe, maybe not second, only to Nebbiolo, which is the great grape in Barolo and Barbaresco. And on another important note, in Italy, as we just said, they often call rose rosato. So don't let that confuse you. They're the same thing. Now, evidently Alianico is one of the premier grape varieties for Italian rose. Oh my god. Yeah, and they are very highly regarded for their structure and depth, kind of like me. Because the Alianico grape has super high tannins, even brief skin contact, which again is where rose wine gets its color from. It creates roses that are brighter in color and firmer in structure than typical roses. So Alianico rose tends to be dry, savory, and complex, kind of like me.

unknown: 09:53
Wow.

Joe: 09:53
Yeah. Now Alianico is grown. She is she wanted I was gonna go on on and on, but wow was enough.

Carmela: 10:00
Yeah. Yeah. Just wow.

Joe: 10:02
Alianico is grown across southern Italy, but it is in Campania, which is the region where Naples is located, and also the famous town of Tarasi, both of which we we visited recently. That's where some of the most famous Alianico wines are from, is Tarasi. And also in the region of Basilicata, which is where the amazing city of Matera is, as well as the cool town we went to on the trip we went to last year, where your grandfather's mom was from called Malfi. That's right. And these two areas, Campagna and Basilicata, are considered to be the top places where Alianico Rose comes from. Often in our episodes, we talk about the top tier of Italian wine classification. The two top tiers, again, are DOC and then the tippy top is DOCG. And there are only two DOCGs in Italy that make rose. Only two. Wow. One of them happens to be Alianico del Taburno Rosato DOCG, and it's located in the Sanao Beneventano region, which is north and east of Naples. It has high altitude vineyards, big swings in temperature between the night and day, which slows grape ripening, which helps also keep natural acidity in the grapes while creating a lot of aromas, like beautiful aromas. And by regulation, these roses must contain at least 85% Alianico.

Carmela: 11:28
Nice.

Joe: 11:29
Now Irpenia Rosato DOC is also in the Campania area, which is again where Naples is, and it's also near Naples. And it's a pretty new DOC being just designated in 2005. But in Irpenia, the guidelines require a minimum of 70% Alianico, so a little less. In Basilicata, there's an extinct mountain called Vulture. It looks like vulture, but it's Vulture. And some great wines are made in that area in the volcanic soil. So in fact, Alianico del Vulture is a great wine and one of my favorite wines. And your dad likes it too. Anyway, in Basilicata, the rose is classified as IGT, which is, we have mentioned this in the past as well. It's not as strict as DOC or DOCG in terms of rules, but there are great, great wines that fall under the IGT designation. But because the rules are less strict, there's no actual percentage of Alianico that is required. But many of the rose wines there are made with 100% Alianico. Oh wow. And some are even aged in French oak. So that's a very different experience. Like usually roses are crisp and clean. So if you oak it, you're gonna get a very different. Very different, like a rich, complex, maybe even like heavier serious.

Carmela: 12:46
Serious rose. So serious. Serious ones in French oak.

Joe: 12:50
Exactly. Now Alianico Rose is not a light rose in terms of body and flavor, but it is light and color. And so you'll see this Carmelo. They look like a Provence rose in terms of the look, but we're gonna find out if we agree with this. But again, it's supposed to be more structured and have more power and have really good acidity, which means it could be paired with foods that other rose wines would not do well with. And when we do our tasting, we'll talk about what some of those foods are that we think would work.

Speaker: 13:16
Right.

Joe: 13:17
Alianico rosato is still relatively niche, but it's increasingly being taken seriously with winemakers creating what they call deliberate rose wines. Again, rather than some sort of byproduct of making red wine. And a reviewer for the wine advocate, they said Alianico was one of the top five Italian grapes for rose, alongside grapes like Sangiovese and Norello Mascalese. Now, not on that list, by the way, was Nebbiolo. I don't know why they left it off the list, but we've you bought me a really nice nebbiolo rose. Loved it, loved it. So again, great example of if you want to find a rose you like, find a red wine you like and then buy the rose of it. Now, beyond that, rosato has been gaining ground all across Italy, where producers are starting to use even their better grapes to make rose. And for some further context, Italy is the world's fourth largest rose producer and exports roughly half of what it makes. So knowing about rosato made from traditional classic red wine grapes like Alianico is important. Carmela, it's important. At least we think it's important if you want to be an aspiring wine nerd.

Carmela: 14:26
Oh, wow.

Joe: 14:26
Now, Carmela, I will say this. When we were in Italy last summer, I think we saw and drank a lot more local rose than I remember ever there being. Don't you remember that? Yes. We had a lot of rose.

Speaker: 14:37
It's delicious.

Joe: 14:38
And whether it was from Alianico or Primitivo or even Chiro, we saw it all over the place. And we we had it like served with seafood a lot. Remember, we'd be like out a hot night, we'd look over the bay and they served the rose with seafood. It was fantastic.

Carmela: 14:52
I can remember being Pollion Almade with a nice bottle.

Joe: 14:55
Totally. And again, like everybody's starting to make rose in Italy and serving it a lot more than I remember on our earlier trips. But you know what, Carmela? That's enough information.

Carmela: 15:05
I think it doesn't need like, you know, excuses or anything.

Joe: 15:08
No, drink it if you like it. Right. But I'm just saying we're seeing it more. So don't be afraid of it. But I think that's enough information. I think it's time to learn a little bit more about the specific wines we're drinking today. What do you say?

Carmela: 15:19
Let's do it.

Joe: 15:20
Okay, as usual, the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $25, and they should be relatively easy to find because I bought them both at wine.com, but I'm a little irritated with wine.com right now. How could we? Because well, they kind of screwed up an order of mine and they were not very apologetic about it. So, you know what? Go to your local wine shop, avoid the big retailers when you can. You know, we use wine.com because they're convenient, but we're not sponsored by them or anything. And by the way, let us know if you know somebody who works there so we can give them a peace of our mind. As always, just use your local folks. And while I don't think Alianico Rosato will be super easy to find a good Italian wine shop or a shop with a good Italian wine section, we'll have it. Now, the first wine we're going to drink is the 2024 San Salvatore Vetere Rosato. And this wine is from Campania, which again is the region where Naples is located. And specifically, this wine is from the Paestum IGT. And if you've never been to Paestum, which we have, all I can say is it's one of the most amazing places we've ever been.

Carmela: 16:21
It's really spectacular.

Joe: 16:22
Yeah, imagine Greek temples in Italy, Carmilla. Well, you don't have to imagine, you've seen them because that's what it was. It was part of Magna Grecia, and we saw these amazing Greek temples. Anyway, I'm going totally off track. Off the script. Off the scrap. But anyway, and it's script. Anyway, the wine is 100% alianico and it got a 92 rating from wine enthusiasts and a 90 from Vineyas. So that's good. The winery says the wine is made using six hours of cryomaceration. Now, cryomaceration is not crying while you macerate, although it could be. But rather a technique in which crushed grapes are held at very low, often sub-zero temperatures, to extract aromas and flavors and color without triggering alcoholic fermentation because yeasts can't activate at those super low temperatures. And so that means flavors and pigments leach into the juice. And winemakers use it again to boost color and smooth out tannins and increase aromas. So we'll see if we can taste that. Then they soft press, which is kind of nice, with brief skin contact. It doesn't say how brief. And then they ferment in stainless steel tanks and then they age it in stainless steel tanks on the leaves for six months. So again, the leaves is the yeast, the leftover stuff from the fermentation process. When you leave a wine on the leaves, you're trying to get some mouthfeel out of it.

Carmela: 17:38
Are you trying to get my attention tonight? I think so. I just don't know.

Joe: 17:41
I'm editing. You won't hear all those things that I edited out. But anyway, they're trying to make a bigger rose out of this. So we'll see if we can taste that again. San Salvatore, the winery, was founded in 1988, so not that long ago, I guess, and specializes in indigenous grape varieties such as Fiano Falangina and Alianico. They also run a five-star hotel and a buffalo farm. And seriously, you should visit a bufalo farm where they actually make mozzarella di bufalo.

Carmela: 18:12
It is so great. It was cool. It was a really, really cool thing to do.

Joe: 18:16
We had a kind of a nice lunch. Yeah.

Carmela: 18:18
It was kind of fancy. Yeah. I wouldn't think that that would be something to do, but it was really, really great.

Joe: 18:24
It was super fun. And they use these animals, the buffalo, to provide natural fertilizer, if you know what I mean, for the crops. They grow their grapes organically, and in some cases, they also grow biodynamically. And maybe we should have visited this winery when we were there.

Carmela: 18:40
Well, we just have to go back.

Joe: 18:42
And by the way, go to Paistum, do all that stuff. The second wine we're going to drink is the Fiudi di San Gregorio, San Greg Rosato. And this one got a 91 from Vinius. And yeah, and we've had wines from Fiudi San Gregorio before, specifically in our Greco di Tufo episode from a way back. You can hear Mabel playing with her toys. That's fine. And they're one of the larger wine producers in Italy. And this is also an IGT, specifically a campagna of Rosato IGT. I hope you guys can hear that because she's just having a ball. She has this little heart with a squeaky in it, and she it's like her favorite toy.

Carmela: 19:17
Oh my god. She's murdering it, though.

Joe: 19:20
Yeah. Enjoy it. Enjoy it, people. The winery says the wine is produced on the highest hills of Erpenia, up to 700 meters above sea level. They say the grapes are rigorously handpicked. How do you rigorously handpicked?

Carmela: 19:34
Why do you need to be rigorously handpicked? I don't know.

Joe: 19:36
You think you want to be gentle, but they say I don't know. And then take into the winery where they are gently pressed. So they rigorously pick and then they gently pick. Gently press that? And then they say to get the most noble part of the juice. That sounds important, but I don't know. Like, do they skip the ignoble part and just get the noble part? Anyway. I don't know. No. It does sound like they're trying to make an apertif wine. So they leave the wines on the skin or macerate, as we would say, for less than two hours. So that's not very long. Then they also say they ferment in stainless steel and age for four months in stainless steel.

Carmela: 20:11
Again, we have a redecorator.

Joe: 20:12
Yeah, the maybe.

Carmela: 20:13
I'm a little distracted again.

Joe: 20:15
She has moved on from the squeaky toy to destroying the rug. Okay. Uh, they also seem to be going for an easier drinking wine appropriate with appetizers. I wish you guys could see this. So we'll see if we can tell the difference between these two wines. I'm super intrigued and excited and also distracted by our dog. But you know what, Carmela? I think that's enough information. So if you have an alianico rose or rosato or any rose, whatever, just drink along with us and we'll be right back.

Carmela: 20:43
All I know is I need a drink.

Joe: 20:50
Okay, I've got maple in my lap. The first wine we're gonna drink is the San Salvatore Vetere Rosato. It's from Campagna, Italy. It's the 2024 vintage. It was $26.97. So I lied. It's not under $25. We got it at wine.com. It's 11.5% alcohol, 100% alianico. Again, wine enthusiasts gave it a 92. Vinius gave it a 90, and Vivino gave it a 4.2. But Carmela, the first thing is look at the bottle.

Carmela: 21:18
It's so different. Yeah, it's it's a chunky bottle.

Joe: 21:22
It's kind of a chonky bottle, as the as the kids would say. It's kind of a chonky bottle.

Carmela: 21:26
Yeah, I don't know what to make of it. I mean, it doesn't, it's not serious. It's not serious.

Joe: 21:31
It's not.

Carmela: 21:31
It's almost like a beer.

Joe: 21:33
It is. It is. Huge beer. It is kind of like a beer bottle.

Carmela: 21:37
Yeah, a little bit.

Joe: 21:38
And now look at the color of the wine.

Carmela: 21:40
You know what I like about this?

Joe: 21:41
Okay, you tell me, sister.

Carmela: 21:43
What I like about it is that it's like no, no. Um, it it's like not it's plain kind of a little bit of tough girl.

Joe: 21:51
Okay, why?

Carmela: 21:52
Hard tough person. I don't know. Well, because like I think Rose engendered right. I think that I think that people think of it as like you. Know a woman's wine and they're like think it's not like um it's very like it's just doing its own thing. Yeah, it's kind of its own girl. Yeah, it's sort of like I I'm gonna do me. And I just I kind of love that. Like I think this would be a fun gift too. It'd be kind of a fun gift for like a very cool friend. I I I wish I had girl.

Joe: 22:22
I wish I had some cool friends. No, I shouldn't say that. I have very cool friends. I don't even know what I'm really saying, but I just really like the bottle's just cool. Yeah, I agree. And it's clear glass, which they often do with rose. But I'll say this wine, like what what color do you think this wine is?

Carmela: 22:37
It is um peach. It's like blush.

Joe: 22:40
It's like peach blush, yeah.

Carmela: 22:42
Yeah, I would very light peach. It's it's like a white peach. Yeah. Do you like how I keep interrupting you?

Joe: 22:48
No, I I love it. No, but it's not it's Olianico is a big red wine. This is not, this doesn't look like a big wine. No, but it's a big bottle. A big chonky. Okay, let's try let's smell it and see what we smell. I'll tell you, I'm getting like rose and a little bit of cherry.

Carmela: 23:07
I think I'm gonna. I'm getting a little bit of citrus on mine.

Joe: 23:10
It's supposed to have a lot of acid, so that makes sense.

Carmela: 23:12
Yeah, I don't know. I forgot to take another whiff here. There's a little bit of maybe because I said peach.

Joe: 23:18
You think peach on it?

Carmela: 23:19
I mean, maybe a little bit of peach. It's just the color.

Joe: 23:22
Yeah, it might it might be. I feel like I'm getting more like crunchy red fruits, like strawberry or cherry or something like that.

Carmela: 23:29
I can't really, you know, it's it's but I am getting citrus.

Joe: 23:32
I will say it's also very cold. So again, cold tamps down on aromas. Right. So that could be part of it as well. But let's um let's taste it and see what we think. Okay. I feel like I'm getting. Oh, that's interesting. I felt like I was getting strawberry at the very beginning, but then I got kind of an orange creamsicle or something.

Carmela: 23:49
Oh, I'm getting, I'm actually just getting like a lemon sorbet. Definitely like a little sweet, just a little sweetened lemon sorbet.

Joe: 23:57
I agree with you on the sorbet.

Carmela: 23:59
But the creamsickle, that is, it actually looks like creamsicle. That's another good descriptor for the color.

Joe: 24:05
For the color, yeah. It's nice. I get I do get a little cherry or something on the front of it. There's something red fruit on the front of it. Okay. But you're right, the ending is like gelato. Yeah. A lemon gelato.

Carmela: 24:16
For sure. But you know, I mean, the strawberry thing too, like a strawberries and cream kind of.

Joe: 24:20
Okay.

Carmela: 24:21
Um, there's a little hint of cream in it. It's a little creamy.

Joe: 24:24
Well, you know what? This was the one that was on the lees. So creamy. Yeah, creamy totally makes sense.

Carmela: 24:31
Yeah. It's nice. It's very easy drinking.

Joe: 24:35
Yes, and very crisp.

Carmela: 24:36
I wouldn't say it's, I mean, it's it's very light.

Joe: 24:39
Very light, very crisp. I keep getting a little bit of like strawberry on it. I don't know why.

Carmela: 24:44
I like that.

Joe: 24:44
Okay. What food would you pair with the San Salvatore Vetere Rosato?

Carmela: 24:49
Well, gosh, you could do so many things, but fish for sure.

Joe: 24:53
Yeah.

Carmela: 24:53
I mean any kind of fish. You could do fried fish, you could do a fillet fish, you could do shellfish.

Joe: 24:58
Okay, remember when we were in Polignano and Mari and they had the octopus burger? Would you have an octopus burger?

Carmela: 25:05
Absolutely.

Joe: 25:07
Would you have an octopus burger?

Carmela: 25:09
A bite or two. I don't know if I need a whole thing.

Joe: 25:11
I mean, seriously, it's like a little octopus. I like it okay, but like it was weird. It was like hanging out of the bun. It was kind of a weird thing.

Carmela: 25:20
I would have, I wouldn't say, hey, let's get a whole one. I wouldn't need a whole one.

Joe: 25:23
I I I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even have part of one. But um, I think this would be great with fried foods. I think it'd be good with spicy foods. I think this this is a really I think this is versatile because of the acidity is really good. And, you know, it's not overpowering. That I feel like it would, but you're right with fish, fried fish or something.

Carmela: 25:42
Any kind of fish. I mean, I could you could even do like a cream sauce with this, like a Alfredo or um a, you know, like prawns with like a light cream sauce would be so good. Super salmon, like smoked salmon would be so good with this.

Joe: 25:57
Okay, good call.

Carmela: 25:58
What about smoked salmon pasta?

Joe: 26:00
Bagel with cream cheese and locks.

Carmela: 26:02
I love it for breakfast. What about you like a glass of this?

Joe: 26:06
Yeah, but you also like a salmon eggs benedict.

Carmela: 26:09
I love a salmon eggs benedict. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, you could do a fritata with this. It's kind of a brunchy line almost. I feel like, okay, we're losing Mabel here, but um, yeah. So Mabel. Oh, good job. Uh, yeah, no, like I you kind of forget like egg dishes. Like this would be a really good, like Italian like fritata.

Joe: 26:33
Deviled eggs.

Carmela: 26:35
Sure.

unknown: 26:36
Sure.

Joe: 26:37
You know, all the cool kids are eating deviled eggs.

Carmela: 26:39
You know, that's just a bad look, though. Deviled eggs and rose wine.

unknown: 26:43
Oh, I don't know, man.

Joe: 26:44
Would you do it? Would let us know.

Carmela: 26:45
Yeah, I would, but you know, what about you guys?

Joe: 26:47
Yeah, let us know.

Carmela: 26:48
Because then if you're talking about like, I don't know. I don't know.

Joe: 26:51
I don't know either.

unknown: 26:51
Okay.

Joe: 26:52
All right, Carmela, we're gonna rate this wine. So as a reminder on a rating scale, we rate on a scale of one to ten. We don't give half points. Seven and above means that we'd buy it. Four and below means we're gonna pour it down the sink. Five or six means we're gonna drink it and finish it. Thanks for serving it, but we're not gonna buy it. So, Carmela, what are you gonna give this wine? Mabel is twelve.

Carmela: 27:10
Well, the fun thing is there's there's actually absolutely nothing wrong with this wine.

Joe: 27:14
I think this wine is the kind of wine we like.

Carmela: 27:16
Yeah, I mean, it's and it's nothing, I wouldn't say it's like, oh my gosh, but like I just feel like I've got to give it an eight.

Joe: 27:23
Okay.

Carmela: 27:23
I mean, I would I'm kind of verging on seven, eight, but I'm like, I don't know, why wouldn't I just give it an eight?

Joe: 27:28
I love that you give it an eight. I'm gonna give it a seven. I love it. I'd buy it. I but it's just to me, you know, it's not like super complex or anything, but it's a great wine.

Carmela: 27:37
Yeah, and the curb appeal.

Joe: 27:39
Curb appeal.

Carmela: 27:40
Look, if you see this sitting on the shelf, you want it. You you're just like, it's weird. You're like, give me that chunky truly though, it's just kind of cool. Like, you know, outside of the box, somebody was like, We are doing our own thing.

Joe: 27:55
We are our own girl, as you said.

Carmela: 27:57
And everybody will know this name now. But what the heck's on the front of it?

Joe: 28:02
It I think it's a ram. I think it's a ram, actually, isn't it? Doesn't it have like ram ram on it? Yeah, okay. Well, uh, Carmela, we we're gonna take a break. Wait till you see the next bottle. Seriously? We're gonna take a break. We're gonna try the next wine. I can't wait to hear I can't wait for you to hear what Carmela thinks of this next shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker: 28:20
Okay.

Joe: 28:25
Okay, we're back and ready to try our next wine. And I said at the break, I'm like, Carmela, you're either gonna love this bottle or you're gonna hate it.

Carmela: 28:31
And the first thing you said was Well, I feel like this is kind of mean, but it's a little try hard.

Joe: 28:37
A little try hard.

Carmela: 28:38
I mean, it's just like are they trying to sell the wine or the bottle?

Joe: 28:43
See, I think this is like totally they're trying to be lifestyle wine, like, you know, the cool kids are drinking this wine.

Carmela: 28:49
I mean, it's fine. Look, I you know, A for effort. I mean, if you're gonna try something different, why not?

Joe: 28:53
Why not? But I I mean this like kind of cut glass, it looks like.

Carmela: 28:57
Well, it's not cut glass. No, but that's what it's kind of got the look like. And it's yeah, I mean, it's kind it's very different than the other one. I don't I don't mind it. Okay, well, you can buy it for the bottle. Let's say that.

Joe: 29:08
Uh fair enough. Let's talk about it a little bit. This is the Fiudi di San Gregorio, San Greg Rosato. It's also from Campania, Italy. 2025 vintage, so very new. $25.97. So again, just a touch over the $25 at wine.com. 12.5% alcohol, 100% Alianico. Vinius gave it a 91. Uh, but Carmelo, let's talk about the color.

Carmela: 29:30
It's a little pinker.

Joe: 29:31
Pink.

Carmela: 29:32
Yeah. It's again, this is the kind of blush here.

Joe: 29:35
Yeah. I mean, you think this is more blush? The other one was so light.

Carmela: 29:38
It was so light. So, I mean, I guess, you know, the but but this is a different look for sure. It's pinker, it looks a little artificial, actually.

Joe: 29:48
Yeah, almost like they put like food dye in it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, because it's it's we gotta make a pink wine.

Carmela: 29:53
Yeah, that's what they were saying. Uh, but it's no, it's nice. It's definitely that's why I think maybe actually the bottle and the color, they it just looks a little bit ice tryhard.

Joe: 30:04
Try hard. You think it's tryhard? It's so mean. Okay, well, let's smell it and see what we think. I don't know, man. There's something weird on this.

Carmela: 30:10
It's a little like yeasty. Funky. Yeah, yeasty. It's a little bit like when you're making bread and you've got the yeast and the flour, I mean the water kind of mixing up, getting bubbly.

Joe: 30:21
Totally. It has a little bit of that yeasty smell. I I fully agree.

Carmela: 30:25
What else are you smelling? Uh what are you smelling, Mabel? Yeah, admitted. You're making me very nervous.

Joe: 30:31
She's getting her pee-pee dance in. Um boy. You know, I don't get, I'm not getting a lot else. I agree. It's totally yeasty. Maybe I'm getting a little bit of like fruit on it, but I I can't.

Carmela: 30:41
You know what? It's a little bit like there's a hint of this is gonna sound so weird, of a white grape. Okay. I don't know. I don't know. That's a weird, I don't know if I've ever used that descriptor, but it kind of like of the peel of the you know, grapes don't even smell like much, but kind of that grape peel smell.

Joe: 30:58
Yeah, otherwise I'm not getting much. Oh, I feel like I'm maybe getting a little citrus, maybe, but what's like a funky citrus? Is there like a well grapefruit's a little funky? Maybe it's a little grapefruit. Well, let's I don't know what you think. Let's taste it and see what we think. Okay, okay. It tastes better than it smells. And now that you said grapefruit, it tastes a little bit like grapefruit. No, you know, it totally I shouldn't say no. You know what it tastes like? Paloma. It tastes like a paloma.

Carmela: 31:24
It tastes like a paloma. It does. It does.

Joe: 31:26
It's kind of got a lot of acid and a lot of almost alcohol kind of taste to it.

Carmela: 31:32
Yeah, it's and it's it's almost like a little bit watered down paloma.

Joe: 31:36
Mm-hmm.

Carmela: 31:37
Like it's doesn't have the tequila.

Joe: 31:39
Yeah, so it's I don't know, it's a little harsh to me. Like I know that they were trying to get this like apertif kind of wine.

Carmela: 31:45
It's kind of tea-ish too. It's kind of sticking in my mouth a little bit. Yeah.

Joe: 31:50
It's kind of hurting my guts a little bit. I think it's so acidic.

Carmela: 31:53
Yeah, it's re it is. It is. It's super acidic. That is funny. The it really is like a paloma.

unknown: 31:59
Yeah.

Carmela: 31:59
And I wouldn't have a grapefruit just on any given day. I'm just not that girl. But I do like the a paloma a lot.

Joe: 32:08
We like paloma.

Carmela: 32:09
But this is if I got a paloma that tasted like this, I would be like, you know what is? It is one of those wine cooler-y type of tastes. That's that's the other thing. Like a wine cooler, or when they substitute a hard alcohol drink for wine. Yeah, they do a wine like a zima. Yeah, this is kind of that taste.

Joe: 32:27
It's kind of I'm getting that acid at the end is like lime, like lime juice. Uh but like, you know, out of the squirt bottle.

Carmela: 32:34
Right. Oh my gosh, that's exactly what I was picturing when you said that.

Joe: 32:37
So I don't know. What what food would you have with this wine?

Carmela: 32:40
Well, I mean, you could do the same foods, um, but I think actually this might be good with something a little bit um richer. I mean, even like a white pizza. Yeah, I feel like you kind of don't need this, it's a little bit harsh. So I don't think I think you like again, like pizza would be good with it.

Joe: 32:59
Yeah, I I maybe bready. I think you're right. Something with bread, but I I'm just finding it hard to a calzone. Yeah. Yeah, I I just I'm finding it hard to figure out what to pair with it because it's so strong. The acid is so strong.

Carmela: 33:13
Right. Like you almost it's almost like you want to marinate something in this. Ooh.

Joe: 33:19
Actually, that would be quite good. You get a nice piece of flanc or pork and you marinate it, it'd probably be great. Right, right. And put a little lime on it, maybe some salt. I don't know. And drink it like a paloma. I don't know.

Carmela: 33:31
I don't know either.

Joe: 33:32
Well, Carmel, I think we rate this wine. Let's rate this wine. What are you gonna rate it?

Carmela: 33:36
Well, I'm probably gonna rate it. I'll give it. I'm you know, it's kind of terrible, but I'm kind of going back and forth between a five and a six.

Joe: 33:43
Yeah.

Carmela: 33:43
Um, I'll I will give it a six.

Joe: 33:45
Okay. I'm giving it a five. I was in the exact same place. I almost debated like, is it a four? Because I'm not super enjoying it. I don't think it's horrible. I think if I was drinking it, I'd be okay with it. But I would definitely look for something else.

Carmela: 33:58
This is your second glass. That's what it would be. You don't want to have this on your first glass.

Joe: 34:01
Yeah, you might be like, I'm not drinking anymore. But yeah, I five. I think it's a five. It's not terrible, but we definitely wouldn't buy it. So, which one of these are you finishing tonight? I think that's easy.

Carmela: 34:12
We're going for numero uno.

Joe: 34:13
That's right, the San Salvatore. Okay, Carmela, let's talk about the taste profiles expected from Alianico Rosato ek a rose, so we can see if we nailed it.

Carmela: 34:23
Okay.

Joe: 34:23
Now, I usually give like general. Here's what it tastes like in general, but because it really depends on the style the winemaker is going for, how they make their wine. So we're just gonna dig into these specific wines. So the winery for San Salvatore says red fruit aromas on the nose, right? I said exactly that. Hints of wild rose. I think I said rose, violet, and Mediterranean scrub. So they're getting like herbs. Right. On the palate, this wine is elegant and expressive with excellent balance. I mean, I think so. Wine enthusiasts says the nose opens up with aromas of strawberry lemonade, wild cherry, and mandarin blossom. So we got orange as well in the taste. Then turn salty. Okay. Salt and citrus take over on the palate, even as undertones of riper strawberries and cherries create a mouthfeel that's similar simultaneously full, bouncy, and vibrant.

Carmela: 35:14
Bouncy.

Joe: 35:15
Bouncy.

Carmela: 35:16
I like the strawberry lemonade.

Joe: 35:18
Yeah.

Carmela: 35:18
Because I was getting that lemon sorbet and you were getting a lot of strawberry.

Joe: 35:22
Red fruits. Right. Yeah, exactly. Okay, let's talk about the San Gregorio. The winery says clear pink with vibrant reflections. Floral nose, we didn't get floral with notes of blood orange, hibiscus, and red berries. We didn't get that. Fresh and savory with notes of just picked red fruits and cherry nuances. I mean, it's almost like we maybe we got a bad bottle. I'm not sure, but it didn't, it didn't have red fruits to me. Vinia said nuances of rose and nectarine meld with sweet spice. Hmm. Pleasantly ripe in style, citrus enhanced for sure. Red berry fruits. So they're saying red berry fruits are further complicated by a stern mineral tinge. Well, it was definitely acid y. The mouth waters for more through the finish as hints of sour melon linger over a saline resonance.

Carmela: 36:10
Sour melon.

Joe: 36:11
I think what we were getting a lot of acidity. We weren't saying sour melon. I mean, we were getting grapefruit and paloma. But salty is good. I actually did feel like that paloma was a little salty.

Carmela: 36:21
Yeah, well, because you usually do have a little salt on the rim of a paloma, I think, too.

Joe: 36:26
Yeah, exactly. So what's the verdict on Alianico Rosato Panella?

Carmela: 36:30
I'm so down. Like I really I love a rose. And um that first bottle really that was a great bottle. Like I would drink that all day. Well, I shouldn't, but I would.

Joe: 36:42
Yeah, I would drink it too.

Carmela: 36:43
And so I would know. I would like to explore more of these.

Joe: 36:46
I think so too. And this is a great example of like if you like a red wine, try the rose of that wine. Right. And it's actually a good example of the fact that they can be very different. Like we had two pretty different wines, even though they're made from the same red wine grape. The winemakers were definitely going for like different vibes or whatever. And so I think, you know, it's definitely worth a try. And if you again, if you don't believe in rose, find a rose made from a red wine that you like and then tell us what you think. Right. Okay, now it's time to head over to our news desk so that we can cover our wine in the news this week segment. Wine in the news this week. Our wine in the news this week comes from Eric Dolan writing for Psy Post. That's P S Y, Psy, like Psychology Post. And there are links to the article in the show notes as usual. But this one, Carmela, is awesome. The article is called People with Higher IQ Scores Tend to Know More About Wine, Study Fines.

Carmela: 37:46
Oh boy. I mean, come on. Just you know, patting yourself on the back.

Joe: 37:49
A little bit. It's okay, you should. And oh, you can hear the sirens. And also the people who listen to our podcast.

Speaker: 37:55
Nice.

Joe: 37:55
Right. Of course. Right. So a new study out of Saarland University and the University of Edinburgh is built around something researchers call the G Nexus. I don't know what that is. Oh wow. But it's basically the idea that raw intelligence works like an engine for learning almost anything, even things you don't need to know for your work or for school. Like wine. Unless you work in wine or you're studying it. Now, to prove this is real, the researchers picked wine as their test case because wine is complicated. There's a specific grape vocabulary. There are regional and national laws. There's chemistry in it, and even taxonomy. And so, unlike school or your job, nobody grades you or pays you for your knowledge. It's just complex knowledge that if you know it, it's generally because you want to know it, right, Carmilla?

Speaker: 38:43
That's right.

Joe: 38:44
And that's why you're still here and listening to our podcast right now. The researchers tested 525 people, gave everyone a standard IQ test, and then a 68 question wine exam built from the same material used for the WSET certification. And the results held up in a way that apparently surprised even the researchers. Higher IQ predicted more wine knowledge and stayed true even after accounting for whether someone worked in the wine industry or just really liked wine. So the study also uncovered that structure and obligation seem to be what teaches you something, not just that you enjoy something. So one of the researchers put it like this He said, the pleasurable route adds to your knowledge, but the structured route multiplies it. And that fits what a lot of wine nerds like us do because we love wine, and that love of wine makes us want to learn more about it so we can appreciate it more. And learning and retaining requires some sort of structured path, like I don't know, creating a podcast. So again, that's probably why you're listening to our podcast and why we think all of you out there in listening land are geniuses. Uh, of course. Exactly. The researchers did say that you cannot necessarily determine someone's IQ based on their wine knowledge at a dinner party. Shoot. And that nothing in the study says smarter people have better or more discerning palates, but whatever.

Carmela: 40:09
Right.

Joe: 40:09
We think wine people like you guys out there, frankly, you're just smarter.

Carmela: 40:14
I mean, yeah.

Joe: 40:17
But Carmela, does that track what you think about people like your dad and me? Oh my gosh. Are like wine nerds? What do you think? What do you think? What do you think?

Carmela: 40:25
I do. I mean, I absolutely the smartest people I know know a lot about wine.

Joe: 40:31
Yeah, but not all the smart people you know. Some of the smart people you know don't know anything about wine.

Carmela: 40:35
Well, but the smartest people I know know a lot about wine. Okay.

Joe: 40:39
I buy that. I buy that.

Carmela: 40:41
I'm getting some brownie points.

Joe: 40:42
Thanks. Thanks. I appreciate it. Okay, Carmela, just uh one listener shout out. Hey, people, we need more shout-outs. Uh, George reached out via email. George, he reached out to us to do a little disclaimer on our Finger Lakes wine episode because he was like, he wasn't exactly sure where we got the information on the number of wineries or the tons of grapes that they made. So you know what? We're always happy to be corrected. Thanks, George, for reaching out. We made a if you go to that episode, we did make a little update. George is actually a researcher of wines from the finger lakes.

Carmela: 41:12
He's one of the smart wines.

Joe: 41:14
Yeah, and so we're like, especially if you're an expert, you can tell us what's what. Okay. Wines coming up in future episodes in case you want. I like that you just said, hmm. Wines coming up in future episodes in case you want to drink along with us. We're gonna do game, we're gonna do decoy wines, we're gonna do Loire Cremont, and I think in our next episode, we're gonna do British Bubbly.

Carmela: 41:37
Oh.

Joe: 41:38
Yeah.

Carmela: 41:38
I love it.

Joe: 41:39
You didn't know they made bubbly in Britain.

Carmela: 41:41
I know, but I will drink a bubbly from anywhere. That's true.

Joe: 41:44
You can always go to our show notes to find the links, the exact wines, etc., so you can drink along with us, and we love that. We love to hear what you think when you drink along with us. But thank you for listening to us and supporting our show. But it's time to go. Remember, we buy all of our own wine and we do all of the writing and recording and editing to bring you a show every week because we love to do it. And our small tiny little ask of you is that you please follow or subscribe to our podcast, and also please leave us a nice rating and review to help us grow listeners. And a huge thank you to all of you who have done so already. You can follow us on Instagram and Blue Sky and TikTok at the Wine Pear Podcast. You can contact us on our website, thewinepearpodcast.com. And you can sign up for our email newsletter there, which is coming out pretty soon. And you can also visit our shop wine section where you can find links to buy the wines that we rate as buys in each episode. And we want to make content that you care about and you like, so send us a note or DM us and give us some feedback. Let us know if there's wines you want us to try, or winemaking areas of the world you're curious about, or just, you know, if you want to just hang out, just let us know. And we'll hang out. So just email at Joe at the WinePrayerPodcast.com. But with that, we're gonna sign off. So thank you once again. We'll see you next time. And as we like to say, life is short, so stop drinking shitty wine. Chao ciao. Bye.