Pét-Nat Is Older Than Champagne. Is It Better?

Show Notes

Introduction 00:00
Do you stay up at night wondering what Pét-Nat is, Carmela? Are you concerned that Pét-Nat is coming to take over your wine shop? Are you afraid of it?  Do you have Pét-Nat insurance? Maybe we should. Okay, in this episode, we are trying tasting and reviewing two Pét-Nat. And what we're gonna tell you is they were both really different. From each other. They're both really fun. And pet gnat has a reputation. It has a reputation sometimes of being funky, being different, being effervescent. And we'll just say one of these wines was like super crispy, fruity fun. The other one was funky as your old gym socks. But you gotta listen in to find out more.

Episode Overview and First Thoughts on Wine Pét-Nat 00:57
Hello fellow wine lovers! And welcome to The Wine Pair Podcast. I’m Joe, your sommelier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime, Carmela. And we are The Wine Pair!

If you're new to our podcast, here's what we do: Every week we buy wines under $25 with our own money, taste them, and give you our brutally honest opinion on whether they're worth buying. Nobody pays us to review specific wines, we don't accept free bottles from wineries, and we're not afraid to call out a bad wine when we taste one. Decanter Magazine calls us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining - so if that sounds like your vibe, welcome to our tribe of wine lovers. We’re glad you’re here. We’ve been waiting for you!

And, yes, we need more ideas from you on names for the wine tribe, so keep ‘em coming.

Carmela, this week we are on to one of our very favorite styles of wine that we don’t think gets enough respect, and that is sparkling wine. Why do we say sparkling wine and not Champagne, you ask?!? Well, if you have listened to our podcast for a while, you would know why that is a dangerous question to ask us, but the simple answer is that sparkling wine is the name for the style of wine where the wine has bubbles (seems obvi), and Champagne is the name for sparkling wine that comes specifically from the Champagne region of France (not so obvi for some). So, all Champagne is sparkling wine, but not all sparkling wine is Champagne. In fact, most sparkling wine is not Champagne. According to the interwebs, which is never wrong, 90% of the world’s sparkling wine is NOT Champagne. So, when people say they drank Champagne, they are probably lying.

Today, though, we are not talking about just any old sparkling wine, we are talking about the trendy sparkling wine you have probably started seeing a lot of, which is generally capped with a bottle cap or what they call a crown cap, and that is the sparkling natural wine called Pét-Nat.

The term Pét-Nat is a French abbreviation for pétillant naturel, which literally translates to "naturally sparkling,” and the word pétillant itself means, depending on the dictionary you ask, either “mildly and slowly effervescing,” “slightly sparkling,” or “having bubbles.” Take your pick. And, while the method of production is ancient, the specific name "Pét-Nat" is a relatively modern invention. And we’ll talk about that later.

For a little edumacation on sparkling wine, there are three primary ways to produce it: there’s the traditional method, the tank (Charmat) method, and the ancestral method, which, by the way, is the one Pét-Nat uses. While other techniques do exist, these three represent the core approaches that are most used globally. So, you need to memorize these and never forget them.

The first is the Traditional Method (Méthode Champenoise), which is commonly used for things like Champagne and Cava, and this method is often considered the most complex and “serious” approach. It begins with a fully fermented still base wine. This wine is bottled with a "tirage" which is a fancy word for the addition of yeast and sugar into the wine which triggers a secondary fermentation inside the bottle. The carbon dioxide produced during this second fermentation is trapped, creating the bubbles. This is a good thing to remember, by the way, as we get to Pét-Nat. When using this method, the wine often ages on its "lees" (dead yeast cells) for months or years, adding toasty or nutty flavors. The sediment is eventually removed through riddling and disgorging, which just basically means turning the bottles upside-down so the yeast gathers near the top of the bottle, then they pop open the bottle, let that yeast come out, and then top off the wine before corking it. Another thing to remember in this process is that today they will often use a crown or bottle cap on the wine before they disgorge it. And, sometimes in that process they do a thing called dosage in which they add a little sugar with the wine before they cork it. And, if they add no sugar in that process, called zero dosage, you get a brut sparkling, which means dry. And remember, in sparkling, the term dry means slightly sweet.

Ok, that’s a lot, but we are just getting started.

The second method is the Tank Method (Charmat Method), also known as “Cuve Close” or “Metodo Italiano,” and it is the primary technique for producing Prosecco and many more affordable, less sophisticated sparkling wines, including many from Germany, who, by the way, make and drink a lot more sparkling wine than you probably realize. Check out our episode on Sparkling Riesling from about two months ago, episode 206, to learn more about that. Like the traditional method, it involves a secondary fermentation, but its secondary fermentation takes place in large, pressurized stainless steel tanks rather than individual bottles. Hence, the name the Tank Method. Sugar and yeast are added to the base wine within the tank. Once fermentation is complete, the wine is filtered and bottled under pressure. This method is less labor-intensive and more cost-effective for large-scale production, generally resulting in fruitier and less complex wines that are usually a bit sweeter and meant to be consumed young.

The third method, and the one we care about most today is called the Ancestral Method (Méthode Ancestrale / Pét-Nat). This is the oldest known method for producing sparkling wine, dating back to at least the 16th century. So, although it seems hip and cool today, it’s actually real old. So, when the cool kids try and play you and ask you if you know what Pét-Nat is, you can just stare them down and ask them if they know the three methods for making sparkling wine, and by the way eff off. Unlike the other two methods, the ancestral method involves only one single fermentation. The wine is bottled before the initial primary fermentation has finished, meaning the yeast is still in the bottle. As the primary fermentation completes inside the sealed bottle, the carbon dioxide that is created in the process of turning sugar into alcohol is naturally trapped as bubbles. It’s a trap! Because there is no added sugar or yeast for a second round of fermentation, and the wine is typically not filtered or disgorged. This means the final product is often cloudy with sediment and very unpredictable in style. A lot of times it can be pretty funky. And that is a topic we are going to cover in a few minutes.

So, now you’ve got your reminder on how different sparkling wines are made, and you know how Pét-Nat is made. But, we still have more to talk about when it comes to Pét-Nat. Like, where is it made and where did it come from? And why are people so charged up about it? I mean, some people are just down on Pét-Nat, so we need to dig into that. And we have two Pét-Nat wines that we are drinking and reviewing today to see if either is worth your hard earned money . . .

But first . . . we have to do our shameless plug.

Thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and you should know by now that we buy all of the wine we taste and review every week so that we can give you real and honest reviews. If you like what you’re hearing, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a five star rating and review so we can grow listeners.

We also love to hear from you and we always respond so you can follow us on Instagram and Bluesky at thewinepairpodcast. You can contact us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com, and you can sign up for our email newsletter there and you can also send us a note at joe@thewinepairpodcast.com and let us know about wines your want us to review or just shoot the breeze, we love chatting it up.

And, as we do every week, we’ll tell you someone we think you should recommend The Wine Pair Podcast to - because the best way for us to grow listeners is when you tell your family and friends about us - and this week, we want you to recommend us to anyone who’s like “what’s the big deal about Pét-Nat anyway?" or who poo poos sparkling wine, or who likes natural wine but has never had Pét-Nat because they need to listen to this episode so they can see what they’ve been missing.


Topic: WTF is Pét-Nat? 13:36

Carmela, it’s time to learn just what the eff Pét-Nat is, don’t you think?

Now, historical records and legends trace the origins of this method to the 16th century in France. Yes, I said legends. I bet it is much older than that, because, you know, people have been making alcohol for a long time, but we’ll go with what the interwebs say.

Wine historians generally say that Benedictine monks at the Abbey of Saint-Hilaire in Limoux produced the first sparkling wine using this method in 1531. And, as we always say, you want to find alcohol, follow the monks!

Wine historians also say the method was likely discovered by accident. Perhaps, because wines were often bottled before fermentation was complete and during colder temperatures in the fall and winter which would cause the yeast to go sleep, but then as spring arrived and the weather warmed, the yeast would reawaken inside the sealed bottles, creating a naturally fizzy wine. Who knows?

This style of sparkling wine is about 200 years older than the Champagne style. So put that in your brain box and impress your nerdy wine friends.

Although the technique is ancient, the name "Pét-Nat" is a pretty new thing. The term was coined in the late 1990s by French winemaker Christian Chaussard in the Loire Valley. The story is that after a bottle of his Vouvray (which is Chenin Blanc) accidentally re-fermented, he discovered he liked the result, reclaimed the ancient technique, and gave it the name "Pét-Nat.” Probably because he was really cool.

Now, let’s talk about some of the controversy with Pét-Nat, because some people just don’t like certain things about it and other more natural wines, and those three things tend to fall into the buckets of 1) unpredictability and fragility, 2) flaws and funkiness, and 3) animosity towards natural wine in general.

Let’s start with unpredictability, which in some ways is exactly what makes it interesting.  Pét-Nat is bottled during fermentation, so the final product is, by nature, hard to control. This means that the quality and even the flavor of one bottle versus another can vary a ton, even within the same year. We are used to different vintages, even from the same winemaker being different, but not so much from the same year. Also, sometimes these wine bottles, because so much pressure builds up, can explode, especially if they are too warm. And, they tend not to last terribly long once opened because the bubbles are considered a little fragile. You kind of need to just drink them after you open them. Kind of like soda pop.

Ok, let’s talk about flaws and funkiness next. Most of the wine we drink is carefully crafted and controlled, purposely made to taste refined or at least taste in a certain, expected way. Pét-Nats, because they generally are not fined and filtered, meaning sediment, dead yeast, etc. stay in the bottle, means those things bring in some funk to the smell and taste. Sometimes these wines are described as mousey, which sounds cute, but really means that they can smell like stale popcorn, dog breath, or even mouse poop (hence the term mousey), and it actually comes from a bacteria which has spoiled the wine. You can also get vinegar smells, or even sewage or barnyard smells. Some in the natural wine movement have done some marketing to reposition these flaws as features, because it means a wine is real or authentic or untouched with things like sulfites, but others just feel like a way to get away with making crappy wine.

The last pushback on natural wine is a bit of a potpourri, but it is kind of just a general dislike for natural wine in general because it is unrefined, unprofessional, or even just jumping on the bandwagon of something that is popular right now. Now, we should be clear that not all Pét-Nat is purely natural wine. In fact, one of the wines we are drinking today clearly states they filter their wine, which means it is at least not a purebred natural wine. Pét-Nat is just a style of making sparkling wine that just so happens to often be combined with natural grape growing or winemaking processes. Some people, as I mentioned above, just kind of think of this kind of wine as dirty or low-brow, while others see it as more punk-rock. And, some people just don’t like the fact that once something becomes trendy, like low carb, or low fat, or protein maxing, and then others jump on the bandwagon, it feels like the product or approach has “jumped the shark.”

I will say for the record that we have tended to really like Pét-Nat, and we think it is a pretty fun and pretty exciting style. I, we feel similarly about Orange wine. But, now, let’s talk about where Pét-Nat is made.

The majority of Pét-Nats are still produced in France, particularly in the Loire which is kind of considered the epicenter of the current Pét-Nat revival - they are the ones who get credit for the name, afterall, because of good old Christian Chaussard. Other areas in France where they are making it are places like Limoux where the oldest known version is from (which I asked you to remember, so did you?!?), Languedoc-Roussillon, Jura, Bugey (remember that, too, Carmela), Savoie, and Provence. But it is also being made all over the world as well, like in Italy, and a couple of weeks ago we had on Fausto Cellario on the show who makes natural wines for one of our winemaker interviews, and he talked a lot about natural wines, so listen to that episode if you have not, and they also make it in places like Lambruso where they make a lot of sparkling in this style - one of my favorites in the style is called Cantina Paltrinieri Radice. So look for that if you can find it. You can also find it in the US in many states, Spain, Australia, South Africa, and in Eastern Europe countries like Slovenia, Georgia, Austria, and even Latvia.

In terms of the types of grapes used, it is all over the place. You’ll find white wine grapes and red wine grapes, you’ll find blends and single varietals. But the tendency is that you will find lighter red grapes like Gamay, Pinot Noir, Cabernet Franc, Cinasult, Lambrusco, and Blaufränkisch, and then aromatic white wine grapes like Gewurztraminer and Riesling, as well as Chenin Blanc, Pinot Grigio, and Sémillon.

But that’s enough information. I think it’s time to learn a little more about the specific wines we are drinking today. Whaddya say?


Pét-Nat Wines We Chose for This Episode 21:41

As usual, the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $25, and I bought them both at a local little Supermarket here in Seattle that has long had a small but really good wine section called Pete’s Supermarket. These wines are definitely available if you look online, and Pét-Nat is becoming more and more common in general, so if you can’t find these, you can certainly find other versions. Just look for the crown cap - or the bottletop cap. And, as always, go to your local wine small wine shop and ask the owner to help you and they will be more than happy to give you a hand. 

The first wine we are going to drink today Domaine Lingot-Martin Pet Nat Gueule de Gamay, and, as you can tell, this Pét-Nat is made from Gamay, which is a grape that makes a lighter red wine most famously from the French wine making area called Beaujolais. We have said this before, but we are fans of Beaujolais except for the version that you are most likely to see which is the Beaujolais Nouveau which comes out around Thanksgiving here in the US. That is not a great wine. So, just remember that, and remember that Beaujolais is the name for the place the wine is from, not the grape which is, again, Gamay.

This specific wine is actually from a wine region in France called Bugey (remember I said to remember that?!?), and part of a slightly broader appellation called Bugey-Cerdon which I was not aware of, and it generally flies below the radar. Basically it sort of sits at the foothills of the French Alps, west of Switzerland and Italy. It is located southeast of Burgundy, almost directly east of Beaujolais, just south of Jura, just north of the Rhône, and just to the west of Savoie. 

It turns out that this style of wine is what Bugey-Cerdon is known for: aromatic, lightly sparkling to fully sparkling, low-alcohol rosé wines made mainly from Gamay and sometimes also Poulsard. And, it is usually produced in the méthode ancestrale, which, as we have discussed, is another name for Pét-Nat. One thing I read on the interwebs said that this wine is actually too dry to be officially called Bugey-Cerdon, so this is technically known as a Vin du France, but it is only 10.5% alcohol, so I am wondering if when they say dry they are referring to the confusing sparkling wine definition of dry which actually means a little sweet as opposed to brut which means dry. Anyway. And, on a side note for you trivia wine nerd buffs, Bugey-Cerdon only received its AOC status in 2009, so pretty darn recently. 

There was not a ton of information about how this wine is made. I did find out that the winery, Domain Lingot-Martin, has these "methode ancestrale" wines as their trademark. They do note that their process involves stopping the fermentation before it is complete, bottling and then allowing the fermentation to continue naturally in bottle. Which sort of is the definition of how Pét-Nat is made. After the fermentation is complete, the wine is carefully removed and filtered before being placed back in bottle. So, not a purely natural or low intervention process. But that’s about it for this wine, so let’s move on.

The second wine we are going to drink is the 2024 Lubanzi ‘Rainboat’ Pét-Nat, which is interesting because it has a vintage, something that most sparkling wines do not do. This wine is made from 100% Cinsault, so it’s also interesting that both of these wines are 1) single varietals, because a lot of times sparkling wines are blends, 2) made from red wine grapes because we are mostly used to sparkling wines to be white, and 3) not made from any of the classic French sparkling wine grapes which are Chardonnay and Pinot Noir with Pinot Meunier thrown in for good measure.

We have had a wine from Lubanzi before, not so long ago, in our “WTF is Cinsault?” episode, number 183, from this past September, and we liked it. You gave it an 8 and I gave it a 7, and we both found it be fragrant and fruity. Lubanzi is a South African winery, and one of the grapes they specialize in is Cinsault. 

I love this description of the Lubanzi winery. “From the socially-conscious and community-driven Lubanzi Wines, the 'Rainboat' Pét-Nat is a vibrant, artisanal sparkling wine from the Swartland region of South Africa. The brand is Fair for Life Certified, and a portion of its profits supports the Pebbles Project, a non-profit that provides health and educational resources to families living on South African wine farms.” So, that is pretty cool, and makes me feel good about drinking their wines.

From the winery, they say this about the wine: “Sourced from a tiny, organically farmed single vineyard in the heart of the Swartland, this wine has character in spades. A cloudy, deep pink color, this pétillant naturel (or method ancestrale) wine made from 100% cinsault, is a bright, beautiful & funky marvel.”

But, honestly, that is about all I could find out about these wines, so I think it’s time to get to drinking! We’ll take a quick break and be right back. And, if you have these wines or similar wines, drink along with us to get some participation points, which you can trade-in for free stickers. You just need to send me an email with your mailing address, and I will get those “I drink with The Wine Pair Podcast” stickers over to you!

LINKS TO SOURCES FOR THESE SPECIFIC WINES

• https://preservationwines.com/shop/gueule-de-gamay-Pét-Nat/ 
• https://vinvancymru.co.uk/products/domaine-lingot-martin-petnat-gueule-de-gamay-nv?srsltid=AfmBOoovEl0eafkk6g9KXDKdcfYbXFqXvs6q7RhwuQp7T9NOiXMDdQ39 
• https://www.lubanziwines.com/rainboat
• https://vinovoss.com/wine/lubanzi-rainboat-Pét-Nat/ 

Domaine Lingot-Martin Pet Nat Gueule de Gamay, 2024 Lubanzi ‘Rainboat’ Pét-Nat Wine Tasting, Pairing, and Review 26:29

Wine: Domaine Lingot-Martin Pet Nat Gueule de Gamay
Region: France, Bugey
Year: NV
Price: $20.49
Retailer: Pete’s Supermarket
Alcohol: 10.5%
Grapes: Gamay
Professional Rating: WE 86 Vivino 4.1

What we tasted and smelled in this Domaine Lingot-Martin Pet Nat Gueule de Gamay: 

• Color: Pretty bright pink
• On the nose: Orange, maraschino cherry, citrus, strawberry lemonade, fresh and fruity, raspberry
• In the mouth: Dangerous, very nice, fruit punch, Capri Sun, strawberry Starburst, maraschino cherry, not super sophisticated but delicious, a summer sipper, pretty sweet, very fruity, strawberry Pop Rocks, zero funkiness, almost a cocktail, kick up a party or event with it

Food to pair with this Domaine Lingot-Martin Pet Nat Gueule de Gamay: Charcuterie, puff pastry with cheese and spinach, fun appetizer wine, spicy foods, fried foods, grilled chicken
 
As a reminder on our rating scale, we rate on a scale of 1-10, with no half points, where 7 and above means that we would buy it, and 4 and below means that we are likely to pour it down the sink, and a 5 or 6 means we are likely to drink it and finish it, but we are probably not going to buy it. 

Domaine Lingot-Martin Pet Nat Gueule de Gamay Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 7/10
• Carmela: 9/10

Wine: Lubanzi ‘Rainboat’ Pét-Nat
Region: South Africa, Swartland
Year: 2024
Price: $23.49
Retailer: Pete’s Supermarket
Alcohol: 11.5%
Grapes: Cinsault
Professional Rating: Vivino

What we tasted and smelled in this Lubanzi ‘Rainboat’ Pét-Nat: 

• Color: Orange, like Tang, unfiltered apple cider vinegar, almost brown
• On the nose: Funky, pee, mustard, barnyard, meaty, umami, salty, acidic, grassy, herby, not very fruity, a Granny Smith apple left out in the sun too long, prune, an old grape that has shriveled, an old nut
• In the mouth: Stone ground mustard, very tart apple, metallic, umami, mushroom, super funky, super under-ripe melon, overripe pineapple, it’s a lot, almost no fruit

Food to pair with this Lubanzi ‘Rainboat’ Pét-Nat: Funky cheese, nuts and cheese, salty, fried foods, smoked meats, Asian foods with lots of fish sauce like Pahd Thai with heavy fish sauce
 

Lubanzi ‘Rainboat’ Pét-Nat Wine Rating: 

• Joe: 8/10
• Carmela: 4/10

Which one of these are you finishing tonight?

• Carmela: Domaine Lingot-Martin Pet Nat Gueule de Gamay
• Joe: Lubanzi ‘Rainboat’ Pét-Nat

The Test: Did we nail the taste profiles expected from Pét-Nat?  42:45

• General 
  • Sparkling Gamay: high acidity and intense red fruit flavors like raspberry, cherry, and strawberry. Often produced using carbonic maceration or the pétillant naturel method, these wines are juicy, refreshing, and low in tannins, featuring subtle violet, banana, and earthy notes
  • Sparkling Cinsault: light body, soft tannins, and vibrant red fruit notes, often presenting as a delicate, high-energy bubbly. Common tasting notes include raspberry, strawberry, red currant, and cherry, with accents of rose petal, violet, hibiscus, white pepper, and a refreshing citrus pith finish
• Domaine Lingot-Martin Pet Nat Gueule de Gamay
  • Winery: Hints of raspberry and alpine fruits with just a hint of spice on the dry finish
  • WE: Slightly dusty in character and showing some structure, this dry wine is crisp and has some bitterness.
• Lubanzi ‘Rainboat’ Pét-Nat
  • Winery: Strawberry and candy floss on the nose, and a taste reminiscent of wild strawberries, grapefruit and a splash of herby kombucha.

What is the verdict on Pét-Nat? 44:29
Love trying them, totally behind them, really fun, and we would do more of them for sure. Experiment, go out on a limb to learn more about wine. A good way to stretch yourself


And now it is time to head over to our new desk so that we can cover our wine in the news this week segment. And this week our wine in the news come to use from our old friend Frank Racioppi who has the great podcast discovery newsletter called Ear Worthy

Wine in the news this week: Scientists Say This 600-Year-Old Grape Seed Is ‘Genetically Identical’ to Modern Varieties Used to Make Pinot Noir 45:04

• https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/scientists-say-this-600-year-old-grape-seed-is-genetically-identical-to-modern-varieties-used-to-make-pinot-noir-180988437/  

Our wine in the news this week comes from Smithsonian Magazine, and the article is entitled "Scientists Say This 600-Year-Old Grape Seed Is Genetically Identical to Modern Varieties Used to Make Pinot Noir." I have links to this and a few other articles covering the story in the show notes.

So here is the setup. Researchers recently published a study in the journal Nature Communications where they sequenced the DNA of 54 ancient grape seeds found at archaeological sites across France and Spain. The seeds ranged in age from the Bronze Age, around 2,300 BC, all the way up to the late Middle Ages, around 1500 AD. That is a span of about 4,000 years of grape history in one study, which is already pretty remarkable.

But the finding that got everyone's attention was one specific seed found in the latrine of a medieval hospital in Valenciennes, in northern France. And yes, I said latrine. As in a toilet. Back then, toilets were sometimes used as trash pits where people would throw food scraps, including fruit, and it turns out that is actually a fantastic accidental preservation system. 

So this seed sat in a medieval French hospital toilet for 600 years, and when scientists pulled its DNA, they found that it was genetically identical to the Pinot Noir grapes being grown today.
So, that’s cool! The Pinot Noir in your glass is, genetically speaking, the same grape that someone in 15th century France was eating, and possibly drinking as wine, during the Hundred Years War, during the lifetime of Joan of Arc. 

Now, the researchers are careful to point out that they cannot say for certain whether these grapes were being used for wine or just eaten as table fruit at the time. But given that this is France, and given that France has been making wine for thousands of years, it is probably a safe bet that some of it was being fermented. 

The study also confirmed something that winemakers have suspected from ancient texts but could never actually prove until now: that vintners have been using clonal propagation, basically taking cuttings from vines they liked and growing new plants from them rather than planting seeds, for at least 600 years. And the research suggests this practice actually goes back even further, potentially to the Iron Age, around 500 BC. 

What that means in practice is that the Pinot Noir vine has essentially been photocopied, generation after generation, for centuries. One geneticist who was not involved in the study put it this way: modern corn is thousands of generations away from where it started. With Pinot Noir, we may only be five to ten generations removed from the original domesticated vine.

The honest question the researchers cannot answer yet is whether the wine itself would have tasted the same. Genetics gets you to the grape, but wine is also shaped by soil, climate, fermentation, and everything the winemaker does along the way. So we cannot say your Burgundy tastes like what medieval France was drinking. But the raw ingredient? Apparently unchanged.

And what I find beautiful about this story is that it is not just a science story, it is a story about human preference. Somewhere around the 1400s, people in France tasted this grape, loved it, and decided to preserve it exactly as it was. And here we are 600 years later, still drinking it, still talking about it, still building entire wine regions around it. Pinot Noir is not the world's most popular grape variety, but it is one of the most beloved, and apparently that has been true for a very long time.

So, Carmela, my question for you is this. While the wine may be similar today to what they were drinking 600 years ago, do you think the food we eat is similar at all, especially since we think so much about food and wine together. 

Listener Shoutouts 49:19

It’s been a little quiet for shoutouts this week. I mean, not even Timmy reached out, so, you know, what gives? I actually think everyone has been out for Easter

• Chris AKA Cork’d in CT who gave us the tribe name last week did say he likes the Favorita from Poderi Cellario
• And we have gotten a couple of nice reviews on Apple podcasts in the last few weeks from Bernie and SnowyEdge and JSCraw, so thank you soooo much for that, and we could use some more of those 5 star ratings if you are so inclined. 

Wines coming up in future episodes in case you want to drink along with us 49:58

• German Riesling
  • Weingut Dautel Estate Riesling Trocken 2022
  • Kruger-Rumpf Estate Riesling 2022
• Viurna / White Rioja
  • CVNE Monopole 2024
  • Sierra de Tolono Rioja Blanco 2024
• High QPR Pinot Noir
  • Soter Vineyards Planet Oregon Pinot Noir 2023
  • Chehalem 2023 Chehalem Estate Vineyard Pinot Noir
• Lebanese wines
  • Chateau Musar Lebanon Jeune Red 2022
  • Massaya Le Colombier Rouge 2021

And I need to buy some more wines, too!


Outro and how to find The Wine Pair Podcast 50:24

Thank you for listening to us and for supporting our show, and remember, we buy all of our own wine and we do all of the writing and recording and editing to bring you a show every week because we absolutely love doing it, and our small little ask for you is that you please follow or subscribe to our podcast and also please leave us a nice rating and review  to help us grow our listeners - and a huge thank you to all of you who have done so already! 

You can also follow us on Instagram at thewinepairpodcast, and on Bluesky. You can contact us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com, and you can sign up for our email newsletter there and you can also visit our “Shop Wine” section where you can find links to buy the wines that we rate as buys in each episode.  I will also note that on our website, if you are curious about a wine we have covered in the past, we do have a pretty good search functionality, so you can use that find wines you want to know more about. 

And we want to make content you care about and you like, so send us a note or DM us and give us some feedback or let us know if there are wines you want us to try or wine making areas of the world you are curious about - and we’ll take care of it! joe@thewinepairpodcast.com 

Alright, with that, we are going to sign off, so thanks again, and we will see you next time. And, as we say, life is short, so stop drinking shitty wine.

RESEARCH ARTICLES AND LINKS FOR THIS EPISODE

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A9tillant_naturel 
• https://www.masterclass.com/articles/learn-the-petillant-naturel-method 
• https://punchdrink.com/articles/what-is-Pét-Nat-really/ 
• https://punchdrink.com/articles/Pét-Nat-natural-wine/ 
• https://vinepair.com/articles/vp-pod-Pét-Nat-natural-wine/ 
• https://www.wineenthusiast.com/basics/sparkling-wine-vs-Pét-Nat/ 
• https://www.wineenthusiast.com/culture/wine/Pét-Nat-wine-guide/ 
• https://daily.sevenfifty.com/the-science-of-Pét-Nat-wines/ 
• https://www.foodswinesfromspain.com/content/icex-foodswines/en/wine/articles/2024/october/Pét-Nat--the-rise-of-ancestral-sparkling-wines.html 
• https://www.winemakersshow.com/en/2025/06/18/natural-sparkling-wine/ 
• https://wanderlustwine.co.uk/Pét-Nat/ 
• https://www.winetraveler.com/wine-resources/7-things-to-know-Pét-Nat-wine-petillant-naturel-ancestral-method/ 
• https://cluboenologique.com/story/what-is-Pét-Nat/ 
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinsaut 
• https://www.wine-searcher.com/grape-105-cinsault 
• https://winehistoryproject.org/ancient-grapes-cinsault/ 
• https://goodwineshop.co.za/wine-notes/cinsaut-or-cinsault/ 
• https://www.thewinedoctor.com/regionalguides/loire_05_varieties_08gamay.shtml 
• https://www.wine-searcher.com/grape-247-gamay 
• https://www.centralaswine.com/blog/natural-wine-is-bullshit 
• https://www.currywines.com/blog/Pét-Nat-from-the-cape-crown-cap-edition 
• https://bonnievalewines.co.za/cinsault-its-origins-journey-and-impact-on-south-african-wine/ 
• https://petnat.ch/what-is-Pét-Nat/ 
• https://www.winebusiness.com/wbm/article/294988 
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfzWKhjG4co 
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSIWV6OTTNw
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W02bWuKPldo
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z6VfkQjWFs
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPS4NIkac_8
• https://usualwines.com/blogs/knowledge-base/Pét-Nat-wine-petillant-naturel?srsltid=AfmBOopzAYLPYqEUOICPDr83LJmJdF76d6Q1ilpsjNhHNzglQ3G840CN 
• https://www.theurbanlist.com/melbourne/a-list/Pét-Nat-wines 

KEY INSIGHTS

• Pét-Nat (short for Pétillant Naturel) is the oldest sparkling wine method in the world, dating to 16th-century France -- more than 200 years before the Méthode Champenoise used to make Champagne was developed.
• Pét-Nat is made using the Méthode Ancestrale: the wine is bottled before fermentation is complete, trapping naturally produced CO2 to create bubbles. There is no secondary fermentation, no added sugar, and no riddling -- making it fundamentally simpler and more ancient than Champagne production.
• Because Pét-Nat is bottled mid-fermentation and typically unfiltered, it is often cloudy, slightly unpredictable from bottle to bottle, and can range from bright and fruity to funky and earthy -- which is exactly what divides opinion about it.
• Pét-Nat is closely associated with the natural wine movement and is typically sealed with a crown cap (like a beer bottle) rather than a cork -- a deliberate signal of low-intervention, non-traditional winemaking.
• In this episode, Joe and Carmela tasted two Pét-Nats from very different corners of the world: Domaine Lingot-Martin Gueule de Gamay (Bugey, eastern France) and Lubanzi 'Rainboat' Pét-Nat (Swartland, South Africa) -- one bright, fizzy, and instantly likable; one funky, murky, and genuinely divisive.
• The ratings split sharply: Carmela gave the Lingot-Martin a 9/10 and the Lubanzi a 4/10. Joe gave the Lubanzi an 8/10 and the Lingot-Martin a 7/10. Same two wines, almost opposite reactions -- which tells you everything about what Pét-Nat is.

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

What is Pét-Nat wine?
Pét-Nat is short for Pétillant Naturel, a French term meaning "naturally sparkling." It refers to wine made using the Méthode Ancestrale, in which the wine is bottled before fermentation is complete. The yeast finishes converting sugar to alcohol inside the sealed bottle, producing CO2 that has nowhere to go -- creating bubbles naturally, with no additional steps.

Is Pét-Nat older than Champagne?
Yes, significantly. The Méthode Ancestrale dates to the 1500s in southern France, making it the oldest sparkling wine production method in the world. The Méthode Champenoise used to make Champagne was not developed until the late 1600s and early 1700s. Pét-Nat predates Champagne by roughly 200 years.

What is the difference between Pét-Nat and Champagne?
Champagne is made using a two-step process: the wine is fermented dry, bottled, and then a second fermentation is triggered inside the bottle by adding sugar and yeast. Pét-Nat skips all of that. It is bottled while the original fermentation is still happening. The result is a simpler, less controlled, lower-pressure wine that is typically cloudier, lower in alcohol, and more variable than Champagne.

Why is Pét-Nat wine cloudy?
Most Pét-Nat is unfiltered and unfined, meaning the dead yeast cells (lees) that remain after fermentation are left in the bottle. This is intentional -- it is part of the natural, low-intervention philosophy behind most Pét-Nat production. The cloudiness is a feature, not a flaw, though it does contribute to the funky, yeasty character some people love and others find off-putting.

What does Pét-Nat taste like?
It depends entirely on the grape and the producer. Pét-Nat made from Gamay (like the Domaine Lingot-Martin in this episode) tends to be bright, fruity, and refreshing -- raspberry, cherry, light bubbles, easy to love. Pét-Nat made from Cinsault (like the Lubanzi Rainboat) can go in a completely different direction -- earthier, funkier, with wild fruit and a hint of the barnyard that natural wine fans describe as "terroir" and skeptics describe as "faulty." The spectrum is wide.

Is Pét-Nat a natural wine?
Most Pét-Nat is made with a natural wine philosophy -- minimal sulfites, no fining or filtering, organic or biodynamic farming -- but it does not have to be. The Méthode Ancestrale is simply a production method. That said, in practice, Pét-Nat and the natural wine movement are deeply intertwined, and most producers making Pét-Nat today are working within a low-intervention framework.

Why does Pét-Nat have a crown cap instead of a cork?
The crown cap (the same closure used on beer bottles) became standard for Pét-Nat partly for practical reasons -- it is easier to seal and open during production. But it has also become a cultural symbol of the natural wine movement: a deliberate rejection of the ceremony and formality associated with Champagne and traditional sparkling wine. If you see a crown cap, you are almost certainly looking at a Pét-Nat or a natural sparkling wine.

Should I buy the Domaine Lingot-Martin Pet Nat Gueule de Gamay?
Yes -- Joe and Carmela both rated it a BUY. It is a bright, raspberry-pink Gamay Pét-Nat from the Bugey region of eastern France, priced around $20. Carmela gave it a 9/10 and called it her clear winner. Joe gave it a 7/10. It is one of the more approachable and crowd-pleasing Pét-Nats you will find at that price.

Should I buy the Lubanzi 'Rainboat' Pét-Nat?
This one is genuinely divisive. Joe gave it an 8/10 and loved its funky, unconventional character -- a Cinsault Pét-Nat from the Swartland region of South Africa, priced around $23. Carmela gave it a 4/10 and found it too far into funky territory to enjoy. If you like natural wine and are curious about the wild side of Pét-Nat, it is worth trying. If you prefer your wine clean and fruit-forward, start with the Lingot-Martin.

What food pairs well with Pét-Nat?
Pét-Nat's natural acidity and light bubbles make it a versatile food wine. Brighter, fruitier styles (like Gamay Pét-Nat) pair well with charcuterie, soft cheeses, salmon, and light appetizers. Funkier, earthier styles pair well with aged cheeses, mushroom dishes, and foods that can hold up to more complexity. Both styles work beautifully as aperitifs.

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