Orange Wines: The Thing for Spring! (WTF is Orange Wine? Wine hype, Spring wines, Easter wines, natural and vegan wine, similarities to rosé, Ramato)

Show Notes

Episode 71: Orange Wines: The Thing for Spring!  00:00

Hello! And welcome to The Wine Pair Podcast. I’m Joe, your sommelier of reasonably priced wine, and this is my wife and my wine pairing partner in crime, Carmela. And we are The Wine Pair! 

Ok, a quick orientation for those of you who may be new to the podcast - in each episode we learn about, taste and give our honest review of three wines that are reasonably priced - meaning under $20 each -  and should be easy for you to find. And, our podcast is made for people like us - people who really like wine, but want to learn more about different wines, and find new wines to explore, and feel more confident when we talk about and order wines. So, if that sounds like you, you are in the right place - and, we fully invite you to taste these wines along with us while you listen as a fun way to participate with us! And we are proud to say that we are officially recommended by the editors of Decanter Magazine from their October issue, who call us fun, irreverent, chatty, and entertaining. 

Carmela, we are going to take a break from red wine, which we have been drinking for a couple of weeks now, and try something a bit new, something that is getting some hype right now, is a bit controversial, and more than a bit confusing - but I also think a bit more up your alley than red wine. In this episode, we are going to be talking about, and tasting, and reviewing Orange wine!

Now, you may be asking yourself, what the f is Orange wine. Are you asking yourself that? We will tell you what the f an Orange wine is in just a couple of minutes, but just know one thing for now, as we said in the intro it is not wine made from oranges. Ok?!? 

You may also be asking yourself why are we talking about Orange wines now, and by now I mean as we are in April as we record this, and I have the perfect answer for you. Why do you think we are talking about them now?

That’s right, they are great wines for Spring! Why is that you say? Well, for a couple of reasons, including the fact that they are different and delicious and so why not Spring, but I would say also because they are great to pair with foods that we eat in the Spring. And, I will admit, that the food choices I am thinking about are highly associated with Easter, because we both grew up with Easter being a big deal, but honestly, many of those foods are just kind of springtime foods. 

What do you remember most about Easter dinner, Carmela? I remember your family being really focused on Lamb, while I think my mom was more focused on Ham.

So what are some things you might look for in a Spring wine?

• Crunchy - this term may be a little confusing, but crunchy refers to wines with good acidity and comes across as crisp and tangy. Think of biting into a cool cranberry. Orange wine is often described as crunchy
• Light to medium bodied - by this we usually mean wines that are bit lighter in alcohol - that 12% or so range, fresh - meaning wines that can be drunk young, and not big heavy red wines. Again, Orange wines are generally in this pipe. 
• Acid - that always seems a little odd of a descriptor when it comes to wine, but high acidity usually means good with food, and with Spring foods like Ham, Lamb, and root vegetables  like carrots and parsnips and potatoes, high acid wines do well. Again, Orange wines are generally considered medium to high acidity.

So, I thought it would be really fun to do an episode on Orange wines, talk a bit about what they are, and give you out there in listening land some ideas on some Orange wines you may want to try. What do you say? Should we do it?

But first . . . we have to do our shameless plug, right Carmela? First, we want to start by saying THANK YOU for listening to us and for supporting our show, and if you have not had the chance to do so yet, now would be an awesome time to subscribe to our podcast  - it is a free way to support us, and then you never have to miss a show!  - and a huge thank you to all of you who have subscribed already - we really really appreciate it! 

And, another great way to support us for FREE is to leave a nice rating and review on our website or on Apple Podcasts or other podcast service so we can continue to grow our listeners.

You can also follow us and see fun pictures of the wines we are tasting and trying today on Instagram at thewinepairpodcast, and you can contact us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com with any questions or ideas you have.

And, as we do every week, we’ll tell you someone we think you should tell about The Wine Pair Podcast - and this week we want you to tell anyone who thinks that Orange wine is made from oranges. Or, better yet, anyone who loves rosé wine.

ARTICLES and LINKS

• https://www.veranda.com/food-recipes/a42819546/best-spring-wines/
• https://www.winemag.com/2021/03/30/crunchy-wine-meaning/

Topic: WTF is Orange Wine? 08:55

Ok, Carmela I know what our friends out there in listening land are thinking because, you may not know this, but I am a mind reader - they are thinking will you please just tell us what the fuck Orange wine is because it is really confusing?!?

Well, here are some facts. You ready for facts? Orange wine is basically a cousin to rosé - and do you know why that is?

Like rosé, Orange wine is not a varietal, in other words, it is not wine made from a specific grape or grape variety which is where the term varietal comes from, but instead is a style of winemaking. 

Also like rosé, Orange wine is made by leaving the skins in contact with the grape juice - called maceration - for a period of time, which impacts color and flavors. However, there are some pretty distinct differences. 

• Rosé wine is made from red wine grapes, and the grape juice is left in contact with the skin for less than 24 hours. The amount of time and the type of grape impact the color and flavor of the wine.
• Orange wine is made from white wine grapes, and the juice is left in contact with the skin (and sometimes the grape seeds) for a wide range of times - sometimes for days, but sometimes for months. This also impacts the color of the wine and the taste. And in general, this makes the wine much more tannic than a typical white.

One interesting thing that I learned as I was researching this, and you can find links to the article in our show notes, is that Orange wine is often associated with natural wines, and is considered to be a very ancient form of wine making - we’re talking thousands of years old - because it is usually not a filtered or fined wine. So there’s that!

There is also a style of wine called Ramato, that we have had before because our friends at Compton wine make a really nice one, so maybe we need to do an episode on that wine, but Ramato is kind of like an Orange wine, made from Pinot Grigio. But I digress. 

Back onto Orange wine. Let’s just say if you have not gotten onto the Orange wine bandwagon, it’s time to jump on! And if you have gotten on the Orange wine bandwagon, we would love to know more about what you think and why you jumped on and maybe what instrument in the band you play.

If you are not on the bandwagon yet, all we can say is that it is about time because Orange wine is growing in popularity, and honestly, seems to be popping up as a thing all over the place. In one article I found from Bon Appetit and is linked in our show notes, purchases of Orange wine are up more than 150% year over year. So someone is drinking this juice!

The real challenge with Orange wine, and this I think is true of rosé as well, is that the variety of Orange wines is huge because it matters what grapes are used, how long the maceration process, or in other words leaving the skins on the juice, is, and how the wine is ultimately made - and again a lot of these wines use natural wine making techniques which can create unique and sometimes funky wines. Wines that have sediment in them or use naturally occurring yeast and stuff like that.

So this is a wine style that you are going to have to experiment with to really get a sense of. You will not be able to drink one Orange wine and think that you got it, just like you can’t do that with a rosé wine, or frankly any kind of wine. Because, again, Orange wine is a style of wine, not a grape. 

So, we would say, Orange wine is an adventure! In fact, and the Bon Appetit article that I mentioned points this out, trying different wines in style like Orange wine is a great way to start to understand what kinds of wines you like. Carmela and I tend to like high acid, medium to low tannin wines. But some people love low acid, big tannic wines - it’s not that one is right, it’s just that there are different tastes that different people prefer. And that is a really great thing to start learning about - and we hope we are helping with!

But again Orange wine is hard to define overall other than the broad way in which it can be made because the grapes that are used can be so different, and the style it is created in can be so different.

So, on that note, I think it’s time to learn a little more about the specific wines we are drinking today. Whaddya say?

ARTICLES and LINKS

• https://mysa.wine/blogs/no-mog-blog/orange-wine-vs-rose-wine
• https://www.bonappetit.com/story/orange-wine-popularity 

Orange Wines We Chose for This Episode 16:05

As usual, all of the wines we have chosen for this episode are under $20, and all of them should be relatively easy to find because I bought them all at Total Wine. And I did that on purpose. Because Orange wine can be a little hard to find sometimes, I wanted to go somewhere where I knew they had a section on Orange wine. It was a small section, but it was a section. I think if you are looking for Orange wine, you may have to start with large wine shops or specialty wine shops. It is going to be a little hard to find at a run of the mill wine shop. 

The first wine we are going to be trying today is called L’un des Sens Orange, (or should I say or-ahnj) because it is from France, and, honestly, it was really hard to find out too much about this wine - and most of this information is coming from the bottle itself. I couldn’t find a website or even an instagram or facebook page. I did find out that it means “one of the senses” in French, for whatever that’s worth

Now this wine  is made from 70% Chenin Blanc - also known as Vouvray when from that area of France - and 30% of what they call Melon B on the bottle, but that is Melon de Bourgogne - and Bourgogne is the French word for Burgundy - and this wine and grape is also known as Muscadet. Sometimes it is also known as Melon wines. 

Incidentally, we did do an episode - episode 19 - on Chenin Blanc, and we really like it, especially the Three by Wade wine which is Dwayne Wade’s winery.

This wine says that it is macerated and fermented for 150 days, so they are leaving the juice on the skins for a while!  The bottle is kind of cool and edgy which you will see on our instagram, and the wine grapes are really intriguing, so we’ll see what we think of this wine!

The next wine we are trying is called Winzer Krems Orange Grüner Veltliner, and Grüner Veltliner is a line we like, and one we did an episode on a few months ago, episode 63 to be precise. 

Again, it was a little hard to find out too much about this wine, but here is some information I found. Winzer Krems is a large cooperative with over 900 winegrowers selling their grapes in Kremstal just the north of Vienna - which is a place I really want to travel to, by the way. They use natural wine techniques in this wine, and the wine is considered Vegan, which we do have an episode about as well.

This wine spends only 18 days on the grape skins during fermentation, so a little different from the L’un wine, and this is considered a dry wine, and on the bottle they use the German word Trocken which means dry if you see that on German or Austrian wines. 

So, we like Grüner Veltliner which goes well with Asian and spicy foods,so I am excited to try this one. 

The last wine we are drinking is called Poderi DiCarlo Pinot Grigio Orange Wine, and because it is Pinot Grigio, I am half wondering if this is really a Ramato that they are calling Orange because Orange is hip right now. 

This wine comes from Northern Italy, in the Friuli Venezia Giulia area around Venice, and I did notice that it has some nice sediment in it, which I actually think is cool. And they do say that the wine is unfiltered which seems obvious because of all the junk in it, so it should also be natural and vegan, and they also say that it is fermented in amphorae and barriques -  so amphorae are ceramic vessels from ancient wine making, and barriques are small oak barrels, so this wine could be super funky and super interesting. 

And, I honestly could not find out much more about the wine and they also have little to know internet presence from what I can tell, but that’s ok, because I think we need to start drinking this stuff to see what we think. 

What’s fun is that we have three different Orange wines from three different grapes or grape blends, from three different countries, and so this will be a great way to taste and see some of the variety in these wines, and see how well they are suited to Spring and Spring foods!

So, let’s get to drinking! We’ll take a quick break and be right back. And, if you have these wines or similar wines, drink along with us!


ARTICLES and LINKS

• https://www.winemusing.com/winzer-krems-orange-gruner-veltliner/

Orange Wine Pairing Tasting and Reviews 23:54

Wine: L’un des Sens Orange wine
Region: France 
Producer: Les Eclaireurs (bottler)
Year: 2020
Price: $19.99
Retailer: Total Wine
Alcohol: 12.5%
Grapes: 70% Chenin Blanc, 30% Melon de Bourgogne (aka Melon, aka Muscadet)

What we tasted and smelled in this Orange wine:

• On the nose: Citrus, crisp Granny Smith apple, tangy orange, grapefruit, clementine (small orange)
• In the mouth: Puckery, lots of tannin, green tea, tart citrus, lemon juice, lemon zest, lemon candy  Lemon Head candy, very acidic 

Food to pair with this Orange wine: Easter dinner, ham, lamb, salty foods, pasta primavera, pasta with peas and prosciutto, pasta with pesto, salty meats, grilled meats
 
As a reminder on our rating scale, we rate on a scale of 1-10, where 7 and above means that we would buy it, and 4 and below means that we are likely to pour it down the sink, and a 5 or 6 means we are likely to drink it and finish it, but we are probably not going to buy it. 

Rating: 

• Joe: 7/10
• Carmela: 7/10

Wine: Winzer Krems Orange Grüner Veltliner
Region: Austria, Kremstal
Producer: Winzer Krems
Year: 2021
Price: $14.99
Retailer: Total Wine
Alcohol: 13%
Grapes: Grüner Veltliner

What we tasted and smelled in this Orange wine:

• On the nose: Peach, peach juice, orange citrus, clementine or mandarin orange, mint, grassy, herbal, spice
• In the mouth: Mint, lot of body, lot of tannin, good acidity, complex, herbal tea, mint tea, peach, more fruit, chamomile tea, crunchy, tart clementine orange

Food to pair with this Orange wine: Spicy Asian food, ham, pasta with prosciutto and peas, fish n chips, linguine and clams

Rating: 

• Joe: 7/10
• Carmela: 8/10

Wine: Poderi DiCarlo Pinot Grigio Orange Wine
Region: Italy, Friuli-Venezia Giulia
Producer: Poderi di Carlo
Year: 2020
Price: $19.99
Retailer: Total Wine
Alcohol: 12.5%
Grapes: Pinot Grigio

What we tasted and smelled in this Orange wine:

• On the nose: Gasoline, cat pee, watermelon, strawberry, smells like a rosé
• In the mouth: Tangy, some bitterness, really crunchy under ripe berry, tastes like a rosé with watermelon and strawberry flavors but more bitter and more tangy, cold raspberry, berry tea, not as refreshing, not as Spring tasting 

Food to pair with this Orange wine: Fish, shellfish, fried foods, white pizza, charcuterie board, cheese board, salumi, needs food. Not as much an Easter dinner wine.

Rating: 

• Joe: 6/10
• Carmela: 6/10

Which one of these are you finishing tonight?

• Carmela: Winzer Krems Orange Grüner Veltliner
• Joe: L’un des Sens Orange wine

Taste profiles expected from Orange wine made from Chenin Blanc and Melon, Grüner Veltliner, and Pinot Grigio   43:50

• L’un
  • Winery: Enchanting aromatic bouquet, the palate is dominated by citrus fruit, notes of flower, bitter almond and dried fruit. 
• Krems
  • Wine Musing: Peach and pepper fruit aromas that are still recognisable under the mandarin peel, ginger spice and ginger beer characters. Typical characters of white wines with skin contact. There is a low level of tannins shaping the wine along with the silkiness that comes with that ‘glossiness’. The long finish is some ripe nectarine flavours with a gingery spice profile.
• Poderi
  • Winery: To the nose, delicate bouquet which recalls fruity scents, citrus notes and hints of vanilla and tertiary aromas. On the palate, medium elegant body, marked by a nice freshness and a good savoury flavour

Maybe start with an Orange wine made from a grape you are familiar with and like. But you do need to try a variety of them.

Outro and how to find The Wine Pair Podcast 45:53

Ok, so, Carmela, it is just about time for us to go, but before we do, we want to thank you very much for listening to us - AND if you haven’t done so yet, now would be the perfect time to subscribe to our podcast AND also a fantastic time to leave us a nice rating and review on our website or Apple podcasts or other podcast service - and it is an awesome and free way to support us and help us grow listeners.

We would also love to hear from you about a wine you would like us to taste and review. You can, leave a message for us on our website thewinepairpodcast.com, or you can just email us at joe@thewinepairpodcast.com and tell us about a wine you are curious about, or curious what we think of it. And, follow us on Instagram so you can see pictures of all of these wines we are tasting and reviewing. 

And, next time you listen to an episode, drink along with us and see if you are tasting and experiencing the same things we are - it’s like a date night! And if you do that, we’d love to hear what you think!

Alright, with that, we are going to sign off, so thanks again, and we will see you next time. And, as we say, life is short, so stop drinking shitty wine.